ac Electrical outlets

[Alwims]

To me, this thread has been really entertaining, watching Ozz get spanked and all. , but now I'm really curious about Bingo's post. My curiosity is sparked as I got spanked, pretty hard from a local, when I was installing our solar and it was discovered, at the time, all my wiring wasn't up to code. It's been fixed now, but I didn't see where it really needed fixing as it looked safe to me.

[bncinwv]

quote:Originally posted by Ozz

Bingo, I am so deep in the doghouse I shouldn't comment, but I THINK I agree with you. maybe..

Are you running for office in the near future? I assume that was a veiled attempt at political correctness (nice term, huh!)? Hee Hee!!
Bingo

[bigmurf]

Weight police, tire police, box police, code police...etc . What next? BTW my underwear is dirty and is the racing type. G

Bingo. I believe you are right.

[Rob Walters]

Rough Crowd........

[Irlpguy]

I do not know about electrical code in the US, however in those units manufactured in the US and shipped to Canada everything must meet/have ULC and CSA approval, that would include all of the electrical components at least with respect to the AC.

You will notice in our Montana's that where applicable, outside outlets, or any of those near sinks and showers are all GFCI protected, either in their own box or in a circuit which might protect more than one outlet. Even those in the basement are GFCI protected in my Monty. If they were not following some electrical code I don't think you would see that. I believe there is a code and not to beat up on anyone but using unapproved or modifying electrical boxes or switches would be in contravention of the code.

I do not think there will be any code where the wiring and components for 12 V is concerned, however I stand to be corrected on that point.

[bncinwv]

For clarification, I do not doubt that the manufacturer's voluntarily adhere to the main principles of a "recommendation" that most likely ends up with the RVIA approval seal. I cannot speak for Canada. I do not believe there is an enforceable code in the US with regards to RV construction. Typically code enforcement in the US is accomplished on a local level during the time of construction or modification, (i.e. building inspector's, etc.). Since an RV is by nature mobile, I do not believe there is a local authority to enforce code if indeed such a "Code" exists. I still do not believe it does, but will change my opinion if someone can produce a link to any code that applied to RV construction. Code is law, and as far as I know, there is none in the states. As a caveat, this is only based on my opinion, and per my original post on this thread, I am open to being educated further regarding this. What makes me uncomfortable is the representation of codified standards when none can be produced.
Bingo

[Irlpguy]

It is my opinion that an RV which will be attached to an electrical circuit (campground, RV park) should have some kind of electrical code requirements.

Although I don't have a copy of the NEC there is a section in there that applies to the manufacturers of RV's. I quote this reference from: http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarch...0~20050301.php

Quote: Article 551 Recreational Vehicles and Recreational Vehicle Parks

Article 551 is similar to Article 550. After all, RVs are similar to mobile homes. While mobile homes are essentially trailers, RVs are essentially vehicles. Thus, RVs have their own Article. RVs also have voltage converters, which mobile homes do not have. And other differences emerge as you look more closely.

While most of the requirements in Part II and Part III apply to the RV manufacturer, an electrician doing work in an RV must also comply with these requirements. For example, the low-voltage wiring in RVs must be made of copper. If you're used to wiring with THHN, you'll have to switch to some other kind of wire to install low-voltage wiring in an RV. Your choices are Type GXK, HDT, SGT, SGR and SXL.
If you're going to install an engine generator for an RV, you'll need to understand Part IV. Part V and Part VI are primarily for RV manufacturers.

The typical electrician starts to get involved in Article 551 with Part VII, which provides the requirements for RV parks. Perhaps the most important aspect of Part VII is understanding how to calculate loads and apply the demand factor, based on the number of RV sites in the park. It's also very important item to not connect a grounding electrode to the load side. Endquote.

I did find there were other reverences to the NEC code book and this Article 551 as well.

What all is involved I have no idea without specifics, but there appears to be some requirement of manufacturers regarding the NEC code. For what it's worth.

[kab449]

I can't believe that, after all the posts one this forum about the problems we all face with these trailers, anyone could think the manufacturer follows any type of code except git-er-done!

[bncinwv]

It is worth something Irplguy. Your post got me to doing some research and I can now unequivocally state that there is a section of the NEC code that does cover RV's. It even goes to the detail of specifying the allowable box types. The following is an excerpt from the previously mentioned Article 551:

"(E) Mounting. Wall and ceiling boxes shall be mounted in accordance with Article 314.

Exception No. 1: Snap-in-type boxes or boxes provided with special wall or ceiling brackets that securely fasten boxes in walls or ceilings shall be permitted.

Exception No. 2: A wooden plate providing a 38-mm(11�2- in.) minimum width backing around the box and of a thickness of 13 mm (1�2 in.) or greater (actual) attached directly to the wall panel shall be considered as approved means for mounting outlet boxes."

I have now been educated with regards to code that I did not think existed, but through diligent research have established that it does indeed apply. I stand corrected as well as educated! By the way, the Article 314 mentioned is actually the section of code relating to residential applications. If anyone is interesting in doing the research themselves, here is a link to a location of a PDF file that details the 2008 NEC Code. Happy reading!!

PDF

Bingo

[Irlpguy]

quote:Originally posted by kab449

I can't believe that, after all the posts one this forum about the problems we all face with these trailers, anyone could think the manufacturer follows any type of code except git-er-done!

Without question there are far to many issues associated with the manufacture and quality control on all RV's. However there certainly are regulations that must be adhered to with respect to propane gas, what must be put on the VIN sticker as well as what must be displayed regarding GVWR, GAWR and tires, and I am sure other items. I also suspect but cannot point directly to rules that govern electrical codes other than that which I referred to in Article 551 of the NEC.

The OP commented that the type of receptacle used did meet code, however it was not what he would recommend with respect to the connection of the wires. Take a look at the crap sold by some of the big box stores and you will find it meets code but I would not use some of it myself. His post suggests the problem is not only cheap legal parts, but poor installation procedures.

I would like to think that when I am hooked up to a 50 amp breaker in an RV park that the electrical equipment and it's installation in my RV meets some established code, and that code has been adhered to when constructing my RV. I am under no delusions about workmanship and quality control so maybe I am just a dreamer.

[2BsRetired]

Thanks Bingo for the link to the NEC 2008. Oh by the way I don't want anything to do with any office except the one I sit in now. HEE! HEE! I looked at the link and I found a section for RECREATIONAL VEHICLES. For all who are interested there is a section just for RECREATIONAL VEHICLES AND RECREATIONAL VEHICLE PARKS this is SECTION 551 you may be interested in reading. You must use the whole code book to understand what is to be done. There is also a section in the Canadian NEC for the same. All these codes are for our protection and safety. Some take short cuts and in most cases they get by. However if you have ever seen a fire caused by a faulty electrical installation or just a fault you would look at this issue a bit different. I hope that none of you have this opportunity.

Also as said by DQDICK Don't overlook the advice about the fire extinguisher. We have 5 in our rig and an escape ladder. 4 of them are non-toxic so if necessary you can spray them on yourself to get thru the flames.

ALWINS There is a section on 12v systems it is under
EXTRA LOW VOLTAGE

Keith KAB449 You are right they just want to git-er-done.. WE should do the same just git-er-done

Rob Walters Yah they seem to be a rough crowd they just need to have a glass of good Scotch and then they will be OK.

I Have another issue but for another time. You all need to do some work on your rigs. PLEASE be safe

One last little story. We were at a dog show and one of the owners had a general contractor do some electrical for him. This resulted in his transfer switch being destroyed. The contractor reversed one of the hots and neutral wires. I was able to fix the wiring for him. Another friend at the dog show who is also an electrician had a great saying. Just tell the contractor that you do not do dental work.

[Alwims]

My problems are fixed to code, but I was curious. Thanks

[bncinwv]

Keep in mind that the posted link to the NEC code is for the 2008 edition. There were some amendments added in 2011.
Bingo