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Old 06-25-2014, 07:58 AM   #1
rafael33155
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marathon tires

i just did a 2100 mile trip with my monty and marathon tires before i started the trip i read the tire spec mine are e rated with a max of 65 mph several things i notice and did on the trip every time i stopped at a rest area or to put gas i touched the side of each tired to see how hot they got @ 60 mph they where warm but i notice if i in crease the mph to 65 on the next stop they got hotter took me a little bit longer to reach my destination but the tire remained warm at 60 mph all through my trip with no problem my theory is that with those tire you can't rely on the highway speed limit and go 75 mph with those tires you must rely on the manufacturer specs so they won't blow out i'm not say it won't happen cause blowout can happen to anyone but looks like these tire can't be run at high rate of speed my suggestion with this and all tires is every time you stop for any reason check the tire's temperature touch them on the side if they're warm they ok but if they are so hot you can't touch them that tire will blowout eventually i'm not an expert just things i notice
 
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:24 AM   #2
sambam
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Ahhh, where to begin. I suggest you do a search on Marathon tires on this web-site. You'll have plenty to read. Enjoy!
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:46 AM   #3
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My theory is that if the tires have the words "Made in China" stamped on the side of them, then they will never be mounted on a rim on any rig that I own, now or future. It is only a theory, and theories need to be proved, so by my calculation, if I experiment with this theory over the next twenty years, then I possibly will prove to myself that my theory was correct.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:35 AM   #4
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Love your theory, Bingo
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:55 AM   #5
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guess we all go live in a cave since almost everything in the great country in made in CHINA or anywhere else except USA like the old days
oh by the way this is NOT a theory but a FACT check your monty it's put together in usa with part made somewhere else
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:05 AM   #6
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You will find many instances of people doing everything right with Marathons on a Monty and having blowouts anyway. The reason is that the tires have no reserve capacity and do seem to have an inordinate number of manufacturing defeats. If you'd like an article that went around the net a few years ago that explains the issue with Marathons send me an email at dqdick10432@yahoo.com.
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Old 06-25-2014, 03:34 PM   #7
Irlpguy
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by rafael33155

i just did a 2100 mile trip with my monty and marathon tires before i started the trip i read the tire spec mine are e rated with a max of 65 mph several things i notice and did on the trip every time i stopped at a rest area or to put gas i touched the side of each tired to see how hot they got @ 60 mph they where warm but i notice if i in crease the mph to 65 on the next stop they got hotter took me a little bit longer to reach my destination but the tire remained warm at 60 mph all through my trip with no problem my theory is that with those tire you can't rely on the highway speed limit and go 75 mph with those tires you must rely on the manufacturer specs so they won't blow out i'm not say it won't happen cause blowout can happen to anyone but looks like these tire can't be run at high rate of speed my suggestion with this and all tires is every time you stop for any reason check the tire's temperature touch them on the side if they're warm they ok but if they are so hot you can't touch them that tire will blowout eventually i'm not an expert just things i notice
rafael33155, I think your observations and theory are spot on. It does not matter what "causes" the heat whether speed or under inflation, if the tires are overheated they will eventually fail and that holds true for all tires. There were at least 10,000 miles on our original Marathons without problem when I upgraded, they never ran without being inflated to 80 psi cold and I always drove around 60 mph.

The "E" rated ST Marathon is "NOT" the tire that should be installed on the heavier Montana's, they should all have "G" rated tires with a higher speed rating for those that must do the posted speed.

If you prove anything with your theory Bingo it is only that heavy Montana's should have "G" rated tires, you are not comparing a "G" rated tire "Made in America" to a "G" rated tire made in China.

It is wonderful the Rah! Rah! on things made in America/Canada, however as the OP says either you live in a cave or behind a rock, because your beloved tire Manufacturers are having most of their tires made offshore and most RV manufacturers are using components made offshore in the manufacture of so called American/Canadian made products.

I look at many of the posts regarding Marathons the same way I look at what happens in two different repair shops where I know the owners. In the Tackle shop, he has grown men bring in reals for repair that are all apart and in 90 percent of the cases the grown man blames one of his kids for taking it apart. Same thing in the bike shop where the exact same thing happens. We grown men are loath to admit we might have exceeded the speed rating of the tires for a considerable time and distance, we are loath to admit we did not check that tire at each stop and ensure before departing our tires were properly inflated. Kids will tend to blame anyone around them, we as adults must accept that the reason one or more of our tires blew might just have been something we inadvertently did or forgot to do, not because they say "made in China" on the sidewall.

DQDick the "Reserve Capacity" theory that you forward on is the "miss" interpretation of one person, it has been debunked by many other knowledgeable tire people who have provided references to the material this person interpreted in his way, it is sad that it keeps on getting propagated.

We cannot blame the country of origin for an "American" manufacturer using something that is not adequate for the job, particularly when the tire is made in a factory that is supposed to produce products to the standard of the like of good old American Goodyear.

If you are contemplating purchasing a heavier Montana, then insist on "G" rated tires, don't accept the "E" rated tires, drive like heck and then complain they blew up on you.

I put Goodyear G614's on my 3402RL when I could afford to do so, not because I had problems with the Marathons but because I knew they were not adequate and I wanted the ability to drive beyond 60 without exceeding the speed rating on occasion. I still walk around and visually check the tires at "every" stop and have installed a TPMS system to watch the pressure and temp when driving.

We seem to be willing to forgive Keystone for using cheap components made in China in building our units, but for some reason we don't blame them for using a tire that is not adequate for the job, guess it is just easier to blame it on the fact the tires are made in China....

That's my theory and observation which ain't worth didlysquat.







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Old 06-25-2014, 05:15 PM   #8
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Interesting that all the incorrect information still points to the fact that Marathons are the lightest weight E rated tires out there. Pick one up, then pick up a real trailer or LT tire. You won't miss the difference. What do you suppose they found that we didn't need so they were able to save all that weight? Marathons are just fine for some light weight trailers and many Montana owners, particularly the weekenders, have had ok luck with them. Many Monty owners have not. As for Keystone and the cheap tires. Many of us did blame Keystone, some national rallies were quite interesting, and they finally got the message and offered them as an option. Not the right thing to do, but better than what they did before.
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:29 PM   #9
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Bottom line is you want a tire that has a 90% chance of never failing, which is what you will get with a quality G rated tire if you have a heavy Montana. I have traveled through some mountain roads this summer that had no shoulder and moderate traffic. Ask yourself what would happen if you had severe tire failure and no place to get off the road for 10 or 12 miles?
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:11 PM   #10
Irlpguy
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by DQDick

Interesting that all the incorrect information still points to the fact that Marathons are the lightest weight E rated tires out there. Pick one up, then pick up a real trailer or LT tire. You won't miss the difference. What do you suppose they found that we didn't need so they were able to save all that weight? Marathons are just fine for some light weight trailers and many Montana owners, particularly the weekenders, have had ok luck with them. Many Monty owners have not. As for Keystone and the cheap tires. Many of us did blame Keystone, some national rallies were quite interesting, and they finally got the message and offered them as an option. Not the right thing to do, but better than what they did before.
Not sure what you consider a "real" trailer tire Dick but the options for 16" trailer tires in load range G are minimal. Out of the 8 brands that Tredit Tire sells, 7 of them are Load Range E - 10 ply rating. The only other option they offer on their website is the Sailun/Hercules tire in a load range G.

The ST load range "E" tires that are being used by the RV industry are all made in China and on the Tredit Tire website the Marathon is the only one rated at 3420@80 psi, the rest are rated 3520@80 psi. None of these tires use steel sidewalls as does the G614.

We can get different rims and go to a larger tire size and have many more options for "G" range tires but not in 16".

I did not research the weight of all the ST load range E tires for their weight, perhaps you could provide a comparison based on your own research. The load range refers directly to the ply "rating" of the tire, to have a load range E the ply "rating", while it might have only 6 actual ply's, must through some formula be equal to a 10 ply rating.

JandC I consider the Goodyear G614 as a top of the line 16" trailer tire, I do not believe you can say it has a 90% chance of never failing, any tire can fail at any time and it does not have to be a Marathon to fail on a narrow mountain road. Who knows, one of those wonderful LT tires on the TV might have picked up a nail and it happens to go flat in a most inconvenient place, you still have no place to pull over.

I don't know what Montana the OP has, it may be lighter and he may have many miles of good service from his tires. He has made observations regarding speed and I suspect will keep his speeds lower to not create unwanted additional heat. Let us not forget he could hit something on the highway, jump a curb or in some other way unknowingly damage one or more tires, that will indeed result in failure.






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Old 06-26-2014, 01:09 AM   #11
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Having much experience with a company that has moved a lot of manufacturing to China, I can tell you that what you put in place, such as standard work, process controls and the like, only works if they follow it. In many cases in China, they do not. Unless one "baby sits" Chinese manufacturing, what you get is a crap shoot. The most reliable way to manufacture in China is to have machinery and processes that are mostly computer controlled with little or no human interaction. Chinese people are not stupid, they are just usually subjected to heavy work pressures and more importantly, can't learn to manufacture overnight, just as we didn't...
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:31 AM   #12
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Ok, the Marathon weighs about 34.5#, BF Goodrich TA 44.5#, Michelin XPS rib 55.5# and Goodyear 614 57.5#.
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:41 AM   #13
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Ok here is a little bathroom reading material, although do it in several stays because they say if you spend too long in that room you'll get hemorrhoids..lol lol----
https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...tandards-tires ----

https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...tandards-tires ----

http://www.thefederalregister.com/d.p/2006-01-06-06-137

--- but basically they are the government reports from the National Highway Traffic Safely Admin. on tire testing standards. It is very long and a lot of mumbo jumbo, but in the end they decided to test Special tires, ST tires, to FMVSS 119 an old standard and LT and P tires to a new standard FMVSS 139. As you can read that means LT tires are tested to a higher standard in all categories, temp tested at, load, speed and endurance.

Also found this
NHTSA Proposes Action to Revise Trailer Tire Regulations Posted: April 4, 2013 in Government Affairs

On March 13th, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) published notice in the Federal Register of its intent to clarify that special trailer (ST) tires are permitted to be installed on new trailers with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 10,000 pounds or less and that such trailers are excluded from a tire retention testing requirement of FMVSS 110 that was intended for passenger cars, light trucks and buses. ...Wonder how they are going to handle 5th wheels since even mine is well over GVWR of 10k????

But in summary I reckon that if an LT tire must stand up to a more stringent testing in my mind even though they are rated for less Lbs that tells me that they will hold up a whole lot better then ST tires used on same trailer. Just using common sense here.....If Keystone uses ST tires, that if you read, failed the same tests LT tires passed, that I would think the LT tire would be a better choice. But if you don't have time to read here is the gest of the whole thing....

4. RMA, TRA, and ETRTO petitioned the agency to amend the ``application'' sections of FMVSS No. 119, ``New pneumatic tires for vehicles other than passenger cars,'' to indicate that it applies to Special Trailer (ST), Farm Implement (FI), and 812 rim diameter code and below tires. We note that in the June 2003 final rule, the agency decided to exclude bias, ST, FI, and 812 rim diameter tires from the requirements of FMVSS No. 139 and indicated that they would remain subject to the requirements of FMVSS Nos. 109 and 119.\17\ However, the petitioners indicate that all such tires have been, and remain subject to only FMVSS No. 119 because they are not used on passenger cars. \17\ See 68 FR 38116 at 38141. .... As you can see they decided to test ST tires at the lower standard because they are not used on passenger cars???????


So we can thank RMA, Rubber Manufacturers Asso(probably so they can use their substandard rubber) and the TRA, Tire and Rim Asso(for the same thing) and ETRTO, European Tyre and Rim Org.(Not sure why they are involved but I would bet China has something to do with it lol lol)
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:51 AM   #14
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We had marathons on our lighter TT's and never had a problem. We have campers in our local camping group with lighter TT's and 5th wheels and none of them have had a problem. The Marathons are just not adequate for the heavier 5th wheels and as IRlguy suggest IMO we are part of the problem. We monitor PSi and temp on or TPMS and have not had a tire failure on any E rated tire that was on our 06 3400 including the infamous Missions. Ther G614's were a must on any new 5th wheel we purchased and that is the reason we got this....Big Sky. They should be a option. Many of us have forgotten the good ole days when the tires were made in the USA and there was a lot of junk tires out there.
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Old 06-26-2014, 06:09 AM   #15
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I agree Marathons have their place. I have them on my bike trailer and have lots of miles on them and also they are about 7 years old and still going. I know lots of folks with TT's that they do just fine on. In my opinion they will be fine on anything weighing less then 7000 lbs. You definitely have to keep an eye on tire pressure and speed, but it should not have to be a full time job.
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:45 PM   #16
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quote:

JandC I consider the Goodyear G614 as a top of the line 16" trailer tire, I do not believe you can say it has a 90% chance of never failing, any tire can fail at any time and it does not have to be a Marathon to fail on a narrow mountain road. Who knows, one of those wonderful LT tires on the TV might have picked up a nail and it happens to go flat in a most inconvenient place, you still have no place to pull over.
I am not saying any tire can not fail at anytime. You can run the most expensive heavy duty tires available and maintain them properly and still have road hazard damage. The point here is we are not running duals on the backs of these heavy Montanas so you had better spend the money and put the correct tire for the load you are hauling, at the speed and conditions you are hauling it at. If you don't, and just try to save a few dollars, then if something happens on that mountain road then it is on you and not on the tire. Bottom line is you can study a bunch of facts and figures sitting in your den, or you can listen to a bunch of folks that have pulled these single wheel heavy fivers down the road for hundreds of thousands of miles and leaned the hard way which tire holds up the best....I am just going over the 10,000 mile marker on G614's on second Montana but I can tell you they have never lost a pound of pressure and never failed in my limited experience, so I guess I can say they have a 100% chance of never failing....so far.
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Old 06-30-2014, 03:58 AM   #17
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I read all the testing reports a year ago. My take is there is no reserve on a ST tire.

My '14 3150RL came with 7K axles, derated to 6,750 because of the Marathon tires. I weighed the trailer and found my actual axle loading allowed LT tires.

I decided the Bridgestone Duravis 250, LT tire would safely carry my weight. It weighs 59 lbs, with a speed rating of 101mph. I now have around 6k miles on them. I run 80-84psi cold and the pressure will increase about 10-12psi on a long hot day trip. (507RV monitors) In over a year I have never needed to add air. I usually run 65mph as that gets me to about 1,650rpms and it pulls good there. Even better @ 70mph but burns more fuel.

We have friends with a '11 3150RL with the original Marathon tires and not a single issue. They tow with a short box SRW while I decided on a 8'box DRW. We all have our comfort level.

I totally agree that if your axle loads are truly approaching 7K then a G rated tire is your only option. Or go to 17.5 wheels and forget about tire issues.

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Old 06-30-2014, 01:18 PM   #18
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I am going to try Carlisle ST tire on my Monty-they are F rated @ 95 lbs.I have Marathons now but am getting feathering on the tread and being as everyone is not a fan I am getting concerned so here we go!
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:43 AM   #19
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quote:Originally posted by RichR

I am going to try Carlisle ST tire on my Monty-they are F rated @ 95 lbs.I have Marathons now but am getting feathering on the tread and being as everyone is not a fan I am getting concerned so here we go!
That tire weighs 44.8lbs 7.8 lbs more than a Marathon. A G614 weighs 58 lbs (13.2 heavier) and a Bridgestone Durvias R250, a LT tire weighs 59lbs. (14.2 heavier)

Let us know how the work out.

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Old 07-04-2014, 01:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by rafael33155

i just did a 2100 mile trip with my monty and marathon tires before i started the trip i read the tire spec mine are e rated with a max of 65 mph several things i notice and did on the trip every time i stopped at a rest area or to put gas i touched the side of each tired to see how hot they got @ 60 mph they where warm but i notice if i in crease the mph to 65 on the next stop they got hotter took me a little bit longer to reach my destination but the tire remained warm at 60 mph all through my trip with no problem my theory is that with those tire you can't rely on the highway speed limit and go 75 mph with those tires you must rely on the manufacturer specs so they won't blow out i'm not say it won't happen cause blowout can happen to anyone but looks like these tire can't be run at high rate of speed my suggestion with this and all tires is every time you stop for any reason check the tire's temperature touch them on the side if they're warm they ok but if they are so hot you can't touch them that tire will blowout eventually i'm not an expert just things i notice
s
Goodyear clearly states the max speed for the tires, and you are correct, exceeding it will cause the tire to heat up and invite a blowout.
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