First long trip! /Hitch questions

[mopar1]

We took our 5th wheel out on vacation this week. We went to Wisconsin and stayed at a couple of campgrounds. Sadly vacation is over now but I have a few questions.
We went up there and back on Highway 51. It is concrete and our camper beat us to death. we were suffering from motion sickness from the constant back and forth yanking the camper would do to the truck. I did not think the camper would do that to a 7,000lbs truck but it was really bad.
I noticed that the camper was a little nose high so I adjusted the hitch down about an inch. Now it looks level. That seemed to help a little bit but it still does it. It always does it during deceleration. Even just coasting. I can make it stop by applying just the trailer brakes.
I can not see the camper bouncing or flexing the frame up and down much in the rear view mirror.
My hitch is a new Reese 15k pro series.
So what is going wrong?

[boylanag]

We got rid of that problem when we had the 5th Airborne Air Pin installed. Others use the MoRyde pin box but they both work very well.

[noneck]

I battle the same issue and for me its related to concrete highways.

[mopar1]

So the rough ride is just normal. Which is better? A air pin box or hitch? I think I would rather buy a air ride hitch, something to keep with the truck, rather than install something on the camper that could be traded in and then have to buy it over again.
Who uses an air ride hitch?

[exav8tr]

I have the TrailerSaver Air Hitch and feel it is the best hitch on the market, others will have their best also. I added the MorRyde hitch pin and then the air ride hitch. This has taken away about 90% of the "chucking". I don't think you will ever get rid of it all but this sure helps. I don't feel "Beat up" anymore. Warning: This is a very pricey hitch, but we plan on keeping our 5er quite a while, plus we full time....

[CmdrDewey]

Before you spend much money, weigh your rig and determine your pin weight. You should have about 20% of the weight on the pin. I would be willing to bet that about 1/2 of the complaints about this bucking (not including the ones that are obviously because of bad roads) are caused by unbalance rigs. We have the MorRyde pin box and we are happy with it. It is significantly less than the air hitches.

[ols1932]

quote:Originally posted by mopar1

So the rough ride is just normal. Which is better? A air pin box or hitch? I think I would rather buy a air ride hitch, something to keep with the truck, rather than install something on the camper that could be traded in and then have to buy it over again.
Who uses an air ride hitch?

I have the TrailerSaver air ride hitch. Have had it since September '03 and wouldn't be without it. It's costly, but some would say, "It depends on what you want." There are those who argue that it's not worth spending the money. I agree, if you're not on the road full time. But for those who are on the road full time, then the air ride hitch is the way to go. I don't have anything else, no special pin box or such thing.

Orv

[jackel1959]

We ordered our new rig with the Mor-Ryde hitch. This is our first 5th wheel and I tow with a short bed truck so I was very concerned what the ride would be like. I can say that we are very pleased and very rarely notice any "chucking" or "jerking" with the Mor-Ryde set up. Our hitch is a Reese 18K Select Slider.
Jack

[Jim Jarvis]

quote:Originally posted by jackel1959

We ordered our new rig with the Mor-Ryde hitch. This is our first 5th wheel and I tow with a short bed truck so I was very concerned what the ride would be like. I can say that we are very pleased and very rarely notice any "chucking" or "jerking" with the Mor-Ryde set up. Our hitch is a Reese 18K Select Slider.
Jack

I have the same setup as you Jack with the same results. Chucking is a rare occurance and only at a low speed for some reason. (50-60 KPH)

[Leaseit]

Take a close look at the TrailSaver Air ride pin box with the anti chucking feature. Just had on installed 4 weeks ago and it made a differance in the front to back motion

[Delaine and Lindy]

Speaking from experience, I have owned the Trailer Saver Air ride hitch, and I have a Trailair pin box on my (SOB). There is no question the Trailer Saver is the best hitch I have owned. Both hitches want stop front to rear problems, just up and down. The Mor/Ryde pin box will help with the front to rear. However Trailair does have new option that is suppose to take care of the front to rear and it does take care of the up and down.

I have had the same problem with the concrete dividers, the best fix is a Air suspension and Air ride seats. I owned a Chevy Kodiak 4500 which had Air ride suspension and seats, Trailer Saver air ride hitch and Mor/Ryde pin box. I didn't have a problem with the concrete dividers.

We have the Trailair center point suspension and will be going to a Freightliner M2 with air ride suspension and air ride seats, the new (SOB) other brand 5th wheel will also have the Trailair center point suspension and Trailair pin box. I will order a new Trailer Saver static 5th wheel hitch (26,000 lbs capacity) and if that doesn't work out Trailer Saver will trade me into the Trailer Saver air hitch and take off what I'm paying for the Static hitch within one year. I would recomend a Trailair or Mor/Ryde pin box both are excellent pin boxes. Good Luck. GBY...

[Art-n-Marge]

The previous posts mention some excellent solutions and here's a few items to improve the ride but there are many brands out there that provide satisfaction:

1. Check the weight. You have an older truck (SRW or DRW?) and a newer RV - the RVs aren't getting any lighter. While still within specification, you might be heavier now prompting some modifications.
2. Air suspension 5er hitch in the TV
3. Air suspension hitch for the RV
4. Add air bags to the rear leaf springs (this could prevent the vibration from a stop and starting to accelerate). Make sure you get the correct capacity!
5. You don't mention how many miles on your TV. Maybe you can get heavier duty shock absorbers (or just replace them)
6. Worse case is to check the RV alignment. While rare, the double axles may not be square and require aligning.
7. Another slight possibility that you should be aware of is the factory shackle suspension that might need upgrading to a heavier duty wet shackle system.

I mention all these for you to check to make sure you don't hide a problem. Good luck with your decision. Just keep in mind, whatever the cost, if there is an improvement, then it's money well spent the longer you keep your rig. That thought helps me through any sticker shock.

[mopar1]

quote:Originally posted by Art-n-Marge

The previous posts mention some excellent solutions and here's a few items to improve the ride but there are many brands out there that provide satisfaction:

1. Check the weight. You have an older truck (SRW or DRW?) and a newer RV - the RVs aren't getting any lighter. While still within specification, you might be heavier now prompting some modifications.
2. Air suspension 5er hitch in the TV
3. Air suspension hitch for the RV
4. Add air bags to the rear leaf springs (this could prevent the vibration from a stop and starting to accelerate). Make sure you get the correct capacity!
5. You don't mention how many miles on your TV. Maybe you can get heavier duty shock absorbers (or just replace them)
6. Worse case is to check the RV alignment. While rare, the double axles may not be square and require aligning.
7. Another slight possibility that you should be aware of is the factory shackle suspension that might need upgrading to a heavier duty wet shackle system.

I mention all these for you to check to make sure you don't hide a problem. Good luck with your decision. Just keep in mind, whatever the cost, if there is an improvement, then it's money well spent the longer you keep your rig. That thought helps me through any sticker shock.

My truck is a 97 Dodge 3500 dually Cummins truck with 245,000 miles. It has Firestone air bags aired up to about 40lbs. Without the air bags the truck almost sets on the overloads. The previous owner installed them because with his heaver than my 5th wheel the overload springs would slap the mounts while traveling making noise.
The shocks seem fine and they are a Monroe heavy duty kind.
I have the equa flex suspension and Dexter 8 lug axles. Is that just the standard factory system that may need upgraded?
My 5ver is the heaviest one of the Mountaineer lineup weighing in at 11,045 dry and a hitch weight of 2,310. I did not weigh it but we did unload it after the trip was through. We did not have 2,000 pounds of stuff in it. It was all stored over the axles forward because there isn't any place to put stuff away in the bunk house except for a set of drawers and hanging closet for a few of the kids clothes.

[KTManiac]

One other possibility for excessive chucking would be if your TV has any unusual slop in the drivetrain. These could be any or all of the following: bad U-joints, bad carrier bearing(if you have a two piece driveline), slop in the differential, slop in the transfer case(if you have a 4X4), slop in a manual transmission (in the gears, or broken springs on clutch plate).

[mopar1]

I talked to a very nice representative from Trailer Saver hitch co and he said some of my chucking is from my "low end" Reese pro series hitch. He said it has about 3/4" slop from the factory.
I don't think I have any drive line slop but I'll look at that. My truck is an auto so there may not be much slop but I do have lots of slip from the loose factory torque converter!

[8e3k0]

We are running a B & W companion 5th wheel hitch on the TV, Mor Ryde hitch plus the Mor Ryde system on the axles of the Monty. With the long wheel base dually TV, the roads have to be very irregular to get an "chucking". The one accessory I would like to see on the Monty axles to control bounce are shocks on each axle. Has anyone notuiced shocks on SOB or installed them?

[KTManiac]

8e3k0,

The MOR/ryde rep, Gary Wheeler, who was at the Spring Rally told us that at the time the MOR/ryde LRE system was developed/engineered, they got better suspension "numbers" from the LRE systems without shocks, than they did with shocks mounted to it. Whether or not if this is just a sales pitch, or actual scientific fact, is arguable.

I would tend to believe that it is a bit of a "sales spin" to have different price point solutions for trailer manufacturers. If it is true, why would they have shocks on their premium IS system, which has a similar rubber shear spring (albeit a separate one for each wheel)? Spring bounce, up and down, is still spring bounce, be they rubber or steel. Shock damping, different rates for compression and rebound, is a movement damping process. Why one system would "work" better with shocks, and one system better without shocks, is beyond me. You don't see any cars on the road without shocks, maybe some exotics with active suspension systems or lowriders with hydraulic set-ups, but not ordinary cars. There must be a reason for that. I think that there is some smoke being blown up the proverbial posterior, myself. Maybe not directly by Mr. Wheeler (because he seemed to be sincere and a nice guy), perhaps he is only repeating something that was given to him as the company line of rote. But, if you ask me, somebody is doing the smoke blowing.

As a matter of fact, on the MOR/ryde website, if you watch their little "See the RE System in Action" RE suspension animation, look at it very closely. Lo and behold, there are shocks mounted on the RE system! The only difference that I can see between a RE and LRE is that the RE system is a retrofit kit for replacing an existing metal equalizer with the rubber equalizer component, and the LRE is an OEM system for manufacturers to install the rubber equalizer from the get-go. Why one has shocks and one doesn't, I think it's because the trailer manufacturers don't want to "spring" for the extra cost of shocks, if you'll pardon a little pun.

Mr. Wheeler did say, however, that some people do add shocks to the LRE system with no adverse effects (with a caveat of, paraphrased by me, "It is money wasted."). Now perhaps, indeed, the undamped system does not transfer as much direct force to the frame, but the resulting bouncing and porpoising action can't be good for the rig either.

******************************************
Disclaimer:

That all said, "I am not a mechanical engineer, but I play one on television.", and maybe I am full of it. You be the judge!

[8e3k0]

KTManiac, some very good points and logic. I look at the vertical travel of each axle and at a point where the axle is bolted to the spring; there is nothing to control bounce other than the Mor Ryde suspension which if anything, may create a resistance to torque or simply twist when that axle moves through its vertical motion. I still feel that a shock at each end of the axle that is mounted to that point, then runs up to the frame will dampen and reduce the multiples of bounce.
It is interesting to follow a 5th wheel being towed at high speeds over uneven surfaces and watch the unit simply bounce up and down. IMHO that allows excessive stress and strain on the axles, springs, shackles, tires, wheels and RV body inclusive of its contents with 10,000 lbs. plus of mass oscillating up and down will in motion horizontally. Wow this could be interesting!!