Opinions On Vehicle Selection - Montana Owners Club

breeze · 11-18-2004, 06:42 AM

We plan on purchasing a Montana 3400 next year but we are getting a lot of differing advice on what type of truck we should be using to pull it. Depending on the dealer, we are being told that a 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, or a 1 ton is needed to pull it. They all seem to agree that while not required four wheel is very desirable. There is also strong disagreement on whether or not dual rear wheels are needed or required.

If you have one of the above models or one similar, would you take the time to let me know what you use to pull it with and what your experience has been?

We plan to be pulling the fifth wheel over the Rockies and would like to also know if a exhaust brake is recommended for the downgrades.

Thanks to anyone responding!!!!!

ken · 11-18-2004, 08:17 AM

Boy did you open a can of worms. There is a lot of information on the subject. For a 3400, a 3/4 Chev or GMC diesel could pull it. The new ford F350 diesel is rated the highest at 17,000 lbs towing weight. The others, to including GM and Dodge is around 15,000. It all depends on what you like and the best deal. we have a Ford 350 Diesel Single axle 2X4 that we have used for the past three years and it has plenty of power. And we pull about the same weight.
There is information on the exhaust brakes in and what everyone likes. We have a western diesel electronic brake that cuts out the air in the turbo so the engine slowes the truck and RV down on hills and mts.
Ken and Velda Taylor

Dahlgren VA
2003 3655FL Montana/Ford F350 Diesel

tnorfitz · 11-18-2004, 08:20 AM

We will be pulling our 3400 with a GMC 2500HD 4X4 Crew Cab Duramax Diesel / Allison tranny. We had a GMC 1500HD with a towing capacity of only 8000 pounds. So the 1/2 ton is not big enough, based on the power train.
We ran into 5th wheel dealers telling us that the 1500HD would pull anything on the lot, but research tells us better.
The weight of the 3400 is 13800, at loaded capacity. The 2500 and 3500 have the same powertrain setup, but the 3500 will hold more weight in the bed, as well as have more stability on the road, so say the others on this site. However, because of the extra weight of the 3500 (extra tires, axle, long bed ), it can tow less weight than the 2500HD. This is all based on the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Ratings.
The hitch weight of the 3400 is 1770 pounds, which is the lightest of the large Montanas.
We also changed the tires from 245's to 265's for more tire stability, and weight load. The dealer changed the electronics to show the appropriate speed, as well as adjusting the shift points in the tranny for those size tires.
You will read on the posts here that the owners of both the single and duallies are satisfied with their purchases, and towing abilities. I am not able to get the dually into my garage comfortably, so I went with the 2500HD!
Good luck with your research. That is the choice we came up with. Just had the Pullrite Superglide installed yesterday, and the Line-X bed spray goes in tomorrow.
Did a 450 mile trip over last weekend, no trailer, and got 17+ MPG using the cruise control on interstates. After a diesel fillup, I decided to not use the cruise, and got 20.2 MPG on non interstates ( ran 60 - 65 MPH ). I have only 600 miles on my Duramax, and I have found the way to get 20MPG right off the bat. The diesel loses its MPG when you get 70+ MPH. It seems to like 60 - 65 best. Just my observation!!!

faeb and genb · 11-18-2004, 08:20 AM

We have the one ton dully, tow a 3575 RL Don't have 4x4 just a personal choice. I would say towing in the Rockies I would go with 4x4. I would go no lower than 3/4 ton. I have towed with 1/2 ton & it is no fun trying to stop it. Can't help with the exhaust brake but would think anything you can do to help stop it would be worth it.
Gene

tnorfitz · 11-18-2004, 08:23 AM

Forgot about the exhaust brake. With the GMC, the tow/haul mode slows the vehicle without having to use an exhaust brake. The Allison tranny takes care of the braking for you.

sreigle · 11-18-2004, 09:23 AM

I'm pretty cautious about recommending a tow vehicle but would state adamantly that a 1/2 ton is way overmatched and would be dangerous, primarily because it doesn't have the stopping power nor the frame and axle strength to handle the weight of any Montana fifthwheel. You might be able to use a 1/2 ton for the smaller Montana travel trailers. I'm not sure if they still make TT's.

Either a 3/4 ton or 1 ton will do just fine if you get the right engine, transmission, and axle ratio.

If you are thinking diesel, any of the Big Three will do a great job for you. Our Montana scales at 13,980. We towed it with a '99 Ford F350 (1 ton) V10 gas 4x2 with 3.73 axle and it did a very nice job. We then towed it with an '03 Ford F350 6.0L diesel with the torqshift automatic, 3.73 axe, 4x4. It did a totally awesome job. Grins from ear to ear no matter the terrain. We recently traded for an '05 F250 (3/4 ton) with the 6.0 Powerstroke diesel, torqshift, 3.73 axle. We have not yet towed with it but it should do as well as the '03. The '05s have higher ratings than prior years so our 3/4 ton is actually rated to tow and carry more than was our '03 1 ton truck. As was mentioned for the GM above, the Ford transmission also does grade braking. Additionally, the engine also provides some backpressure by closing the vanes on the turbo. So an exhaust brake is not needed in our experience. One of the magazines tested all current vehicles and proclaimed the torqshift the best transmission becuase it was smarter about shifting up and down and also on the grade braking, it runs cool (long life) and seems heavier. But that does not mean the Allison is not good. Allison has a terrific reputation and the transmission they built for GM should prove to be long-lived also. Both the Ford and GM automatics are too new to say they will truly be bulletproof although I'm hearing of some of both with 600k or so miles without major work. So either of these should do the trick for you. Dodge has a new automatic for the Cummins diesel that's supposed to be good also but it's brand new so I haven't heard much about it yet. But I'd guess it will be a good one. So, in diesel, any of the big three should do just fine for you.

Gas. If you prefer a gas engine, the Ford V10, the Dodge V10 (have to go to a used one to get this engine) and the GM 8.1L V8 all are good towing engines. The Ford and GM gassers are available with the transmissions mentioned for the diesels, also

4x4. Lots of discussion on the need for this. Some prefer 4x4. Others don't see the need. Some of us have the 4x4 primarily because we spend some time in snow country. A couple of times towing I was glad to have the 4x4 but when we towed with a 4x2 we did just fine, too. So I think this one comes down to personal preference.

Dually or single rear wheel. I think this is another personal preference item. Some folks feel the dually gives them more stability. That makes sense since there's more rubber on the ground. But I've never had a moment in all these years including 20 months of fulltime traveling where I felt a dually would have been preferable to our single rear wheel. This is just my opinion. We like the easier parking, lower maintenance (fewere tires, etc.), of our SRW and we were in one place where duallys were prohibited (not an rv park. it was one road in Big Bend National Park.) There's not enough of that kind of thing that I'd let that stop me from getting a dually if that's what we wanted. Either SRW or DRW will do just fine for you. Go with your preference on this one.

Some 3/4 tons have had the pinweight cause the rear end to sag a little. Some of those folks installed airbags to solve that problem. I don't anticipate this problem on our new 3/4 ton because the rear springs are wider/heavier than last year's model. These are 3-inch leafs. If there is a problem we'll go with airbags but I sure don't expect to have that problem.

Just about all of us have our brand preference for whatever reason. For me, it's because the Fords have been pretty much bulletproof for us and I like not having to take it in for work. Others here will tell you the same thing about their preferred brand and we're all correct, just what works best for us individually. So as far as brand, I'd recommend you go with the one you like best and/or are most comfortable with. It's hard to make a bad choice these days so long as you get enough engine, transmission, and axle ratio.

Good luck. Let us know when you make the decision and purchase.

Sue · 11-18-2004, 09:28 AM

We also have the 3400. Any 1 ton will pull it with ease. As far as the dually goes, I have a dually and a regular. I pull our horses with the dually and the only reason we bought the dually is to offer more stability when pulling animals because they shift their weight and it handles the motion better. Each horse can weigh between 1200-1500 lbs. Get 4 of them shifting at the same time or different times and the dually is my re-assurance.

I have not yet pulled the Monty with the dually, but can tell you just in pulling the horses and backing up the horse trailer with the dually, your turn ratio is not as GREAT as a regular truck. My husband has a GMC HD and it manuevers great with the Monty.

As far as 4 wheel drive goes, you may come into situations when towing that the 4 wheel drive will come in handy, like on slick grass when trying to park it, or a little bit of mud. I have used it several times manuvering into tight spots.

Good Luck with your search.

DiananColin · 11-18-2004, 09:30 AM

How many opinions will you get? - as many as there are MOC members!

We tow a 2005 3400 with the Dodge Ram 1 ton single axle short bed quadcab laramie version automatic 4x4 Cummins turbo diesel" (Whew!). Just completed Ontario to Florida and back with absolutely no problems or concerns. We will not be fitting an exhaust brake as with the tow/haul mode we will get the same (or nearly the same) braking effect - key to my mind is think about steep downhill the same way as the truckers. Don't worry about the traffic behind you - they WILL get over it. I also read that there is a trucker mantra that says there are many hills you will go down too slowly but there is only one you will go down too fast! If we hauling over the rockies I might reconsider the exhaust brake but for the rest of North American Mountains and hills we will not bother. What we do intend is to install air bags on the truck - just to bring the TV absolutely in line (there is a minimal droop without bags) and probably on the fiver air bags on the hitch just to reduce the road bounce from concrete roads and bridges. Being an Accountant by trade I am naturally cautious but also appreciate value so we have the very best brake controller (prodigy) and hitch (pullrite superglide) installed.

For our money there was only one make (not necessarily thinking that Ford or GM couldn't do the job - just the local dealers were just not as knowledgeable about their product as we needed) but in general we believe you will be much better off with MORE truck than you think you need. Don't listen to those that would lead you to believe that the 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks will do the job - you will regret it!

sreigle · 11-18-2004, 12:58 PM

Breeze, I see you are in Overland Park. We have children (and grandkids) in Mission, Merriam, and Prairie Village. When we visit the kids we stay at Campus RV Park in Independence, MO. That's not far from you as you know. We're at Campus right now and will be here until after Christmas.

If you'd like to get together to talk about Montanas, trucks, or anything else (don't worry, we won't push Fords on you), please feel free to click on the envelope icon above to email me. One of our sons and his family are moving Thanksgiving week from Prairie Village to Lenexa. That plus the holiday has us hopping pretty good until after Thanksgiving. But we're pretty much available after that, until Christmas, with just a few commitments. Please don't feel obligated.

FYI, we bought our current Montana at Naylor's RV in Kansas City. We're very pleased with this dealer in the two years we've dealt with them.

Treecounter · 11-18-2004, 03:34 PM

WE are use ing a 99 Dodge 1 ton 4X2 dully to pull our 3280RL it works just fine. It is a five speed with a PAC brake. We had a 93 Dodge 4X4 before and it road like a lumber wagon. Pulled our 35' Kit just fine but never used the four wheel drive so passed on it when we bought the new rig. WE hear Dodge is having problems with fuel supply on the new rigs. We have 101,000+ miles on this truck and still have half life on the brakes. Go PAC Brake. Any of the big three trucks Will do the job, but go with the 3/4 ton or more as we all get two foot idest and want more room. Treecounter

stiles watson · 11-18-2004, 05:35 PM

Mirror, Mirror on the wall, which is the bestist truck of all? Trying to answer that is like telling fairytails. In diesels, Dodges have Cummins, Ford has International, and Chevy/GMC have Isusu (called Duramax). All are good engines. GCVW is the main issue. So you have to do the math. It is my opinion that you can use any of the big three 3/4 or 1 ton trucks and do well.

Why not go drive each of them, kick the tires and pick the one that suits you. Of course, when purchasing the tow vehicle for our "home", we should exercise due diligence. However, some of us engineer types are so afraid of making a mistake or worse, not getting the best deal, that we go into analysis paralysis.

Montana Sky · 11-18-2004, 09:29 PM

I am towing my 3400RL with my 2500HD Chevy shortbed, crewcab 4x4, with the Duramax diesel and allison tranny. This truck tows the coach like a dream. I have no trouble starting, stopping, or pulling the grades up and down the back side. I will agree with the others on the point that no half ton truck no matter which brand will tow a 3400RL. If a dealership is telling you that it will, I would be looking for a new dealership right away. I have not found any reason to justify towing this coach with a dually. My short bed is as solid as can be. I will tell you that the 2005 chevy duramax crew cab 4x4 dually will tow 16,100lbs and the 2500HD crew cab short bed will tow 14,300lbs. I know if I ever have to replace this truck in the near future, I will be getting another Duramax with the Allison tranny. In my opinion just cant beat the package.

steves · 11-19-2004, 12:24 AM

All three manufactures are making good products that can pull your 3400. My recommendation is stay with a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel (my preference is the 1 ton - would prefer to have the higher, spring and brake capacity). Also recommend a long bed, it eliminate sliding hitches and turning radius concerns. As to the single or dual wheel question, both will handle the 3400 - I prefer not to deal with the extra width in normal day to day driving. The 4x4 option - while not required for towing, will help get you in and out of slick or muddy spots.

I have a 2005 3400 and tow with a F350, 4x4, CC, diesel, SRW, LB. and the set up tows very well. The newer trucks will do even better as they all have had their tow ratings and load capacity increased.

Bottom line is look, drive and research the vehicles and pick what you think is best for you.

captbanjo · 11-19-2004, 04:25 AM

Last spring, I did the same research you are doing. I got a lot of good advice and ended up buying pretty much what Montana Sky has. I'm in the northeast and routinely pull my 3400RL up and down the White Mountains with ease. Good luck.

Bob Pasternak · 11-21-2004, 01:57 PM

Breeze: If you haven't gotten a truck, there's one thing to think about. A 3/4 ton will probably pull almost any Montana if it is set up right. Most dealers do not keep 3/4 ton trucks with tow/camper packages on them sitting around their lots. You'd need to order it and that'd be about a 6 week wait. I have a 3/4 Dodge 4 x 2 Cummins with the tow/camper package. The package includes: extra leaves in rear springs, heavy duty shocks, heavy duty sway bars front and rear, over sized tranny cooler, over sized radiator and larger alternator and batteries. It also includes tow mirrors and I think Dodge has about the best mirrors out. I'd assume Ford and Chevy/GM offer the same options.

sreigle · 11-21-2004, 04:42 PM

Bob, it's probably different where you are but where I am there are lots and lots of 3/4 tons with tow package on the dealer's lots. I just bought one a month ago and was at quite a number of lots looking at them. As I said, it's probably different where you are at but I'm maybe 20 miles from Breeze so thought I'd add this thought. I guess I was lucky to be in the right part of the country to find lots of choices. Thanks for the headsup, just glad it didn't work out that way for me!

Bob Pasternak · 11-21-2004, 04:57 PM

Sreigle: Hello Steve. I really didn't think I wanted a new one when I got mine and I had specifics in mind when I was looking. I found this truck I have through "Auto Trader" in Madison Heights, MI. It was set up exactly as I wanted, was 2 1/2 years old and had 17000 miles on it. And the price was right. I couldn't pass it up. I've had it 19 months and we've put 28000 miles on it. My traveling companion was making noises the other day like a new truck would be nice. Told her I wasn't about to part with this one.

sreigle · 11-22-2004, 02:56 AM

Sounds like you got a good deal and a nice truck, Bob. Exactly what you want and you're still happy with it. That's great! I should have got the crew cab in the first place but didn't. So this time we went with the crew cab. Granddaughters are growing and need more room. I also know what you mean about putting lots of miles on the truck. We had the last truck 16 months and put 51,000 on it. That's about 3200/month average. The new one is a few days short of a month old and has 3300 miles already so I guess we'll rack 'em up at about the same rate. I really thought we would put fewer miles on while here in Independence but it's not working out that way.

The dealer I bought from had far more 3/4 tons than 1 tons. He said the 3/4 tons are so capable any more they outsell the 1 tons by several times. I'm not sure why, there's not much difference in price. I guess people figure they'll ride better but from my test drives I can't tell the difference.

Native Tex · 11-22-2004, 01:11 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by breeze

We plan on purchasing a Montana 3400 next year but we are getting a lot of differing advice on what type of truck we should be using to pull it. Depending on the dealer, we are being told that a 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, or a 1 ton is needed to pull it. They all seem to agree that while not required four wheel is very desirable. There is also strong disagreement on whether or not dual rear wheels are needed or required.

If you have one of the above models or one similar, would you take the time to let me know what you use to pull it with and what your experience has been?

We plan to be pulling the fifth wheel over the Rockies and would like to also know if a exhaust brake is recommended for the downgrades.

Thanks to anyone responding!!!!!

Breeze - if you have a dealer telling you that a 1/2 ton will pull a 3400, I suggest you look elsewhere. I agree with all the other post that you should have at least a 3/4 ton diesel at a minimum. I do not have the dually option, but if you full time or pull everyday, the extra stance is nice to have. I am sure some of the guys/gals that do that can give info on that aspect. Best of luck on your choice of truck, but I will say that you will love the 3400.

rames14 · 11-22-2004, 01:30 PM

Breeze -

A lot of the items were covered pretty well but there were a couple just barely touched on. If you are going to keep it in a garage, check overall length. With my extended garage, if I touch the wall with the bumper, I can close the door. I have a Silverado Crew Cab with the short bed. Steve mentioned that they like the crew cab. We still have family trips where I need to haul 4/5 people and decided that we needed the extra passenger space.

Duallies is another area of personal preference. You will find that there are some trade-offs. Again, with my garage it would be an issue. If I were full-timing, I might consider the duallies, but haven't suffered without it yet.

Short bed versus long bed. Again, another item for personal preference. Most people with short beds get a slider hitch - another decision. If you go with a slider, you have choices of manual or automatic. More decisions.

At the end of the day, you might want to make a list of each of the potential features:
Gas/Diesel
Ford/GM/Dodge
4x4/Not
Short Bed/Long Bed
Duallies/Not
Standard/Club/Crew Cab
3/4 / 1 ton (By the way - when I bought my Chevy the 2500HD had more towing capacity than the 3500 - Same Powertrain, More Weight, Less Towing Capacity)

Make sure that when you look at options you check the towing package and extended mirrors. Good luck.

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