Propane tanks in the winter - Montana Owners Club

Biggjb · 03-16-2013, 07:44 AM

I am getting my Montana ready for a trip to Florida and have filled both propane tanks. Due to the cold weather here (20-25 F) the propane tanks have a tendancy to read empty when they are actually half to 3/4 full and the furnance shuts down. I know you can buy a battery warmer to keep a battery from freezing, but is there a product to keep the propane tank from freezing? If so, I will only need it to get to say Virgina.

Capt Kidd · 03-16-2013, 08:06 AM

Why not just put a 12 volt trouble light in each compartment? That should keep it warm enough.

Art-n-Marge · 03-16-2013, 09:52 AM

Since propane flows and boils over at below freezing temperatures I am not sure what you are describing is necessarily possible. I'm also not an expert at using propane at low temps but it seems there's something wrong with the regulator not being able to deliver pressurized vapor when the ambient temps are very cold. What are you looking at when you see "read empty". I use an inline round gauge to see when the tanks are empty and have learned that propane needs to be flowing to get a correct reading and that it will be green almost until the tank is almost empty, then go yellow to red REAL fast when the tank is empty. It is NOT very accurate in that sense, but does provide 30 minutes to 1 hour when I better have another tank ready.

Propane operation is a little puzzling to me and goes against what I know that keeping things warm (engine oil, other fluids, etc.) to keep things running does not apply with propane. Based on this, maybe Capt Kidd has the right idea, that any warmer difference of the propane tank's surrounding air from the very cold exterior air should suffice.

I, for one, am looking forward to some interesting problem descriptions and solutions.

I hope someone else can provide the solution for the OP in that there might be a problem going on here and what a better solution than a blanket or heat source of some kind would work.

8.1al · 03-16-2013, 11:57 AM

I'm not sure what the answer is to your problem is but we have frequently been in temps lower than 20 with no trouble

Illini Trekker · 03-16-2013, 12:21 PM

Finding Propain here in floria, $19.50 to fill a 30lb tank. If it will wait fill them when you get hear?

Ozz · 03-16-2013, 12:49 PM

Pull from both tanks at once, that will solve the problem.
Safe travels.
Ozz

ols1932 · 03-16-2013, 01:19 PM

Art,
We have the automatic changeover on ours. I turn both tanks on and when one is empty it automatically changes to the other tank. Then I fill the empty one and start over again. We've never had one freeze and we've been in some -8° weather.

Orv

kab449 · 03-16-2013, 01:45 PM

Only run the furnace on propane to reduce the demand. Frig and water heater on electric. If you have an electric space heater use that also. Cold weather reduces the amount of gas available to your appliances.

Biggjb · 03-16-2013, 05:13 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ols1932

Art,
We have the automatic changeover on ours. I turn both tanks on and when one is empty it automatically changes to the other tank. Then I fill the empty one and start over again. We've never had one freeze and we've been in some -8° weather.

Orv

Orv,
I too have the automatic changeover and I went to check the tank where ther changeover valve is and it read, RED. When I went to take the tank I noticed a frost line more than half the way up. I them used a rag soaked in hot water and wrapped the tank to heat the propane...low and behold, the valve changed to green. Tonight it is suppose to drop to 5 deg F. By the way a 30 lbs propane tanks cost $26.50(CAN) here. If I can wait until Florida you bet I will.

Biggjb · 03-16-2013, 05:57 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Art-n-Marge

Since propane flows and boils over at below freezing temperatures I am not sure what you are describing is necessarily possible. I'm also not an expert at using propane at low temps but it seems there's something wrong with the regulator not being able to deliver pressurized vapor when the ambient temps are very cold. What are you looking at when you see "read empty". I use an inline round gauge to see when the tanks are empty and have learned that propane needs to be flowing to get a correct reading and that it will be green almost until the tank is almost empty, then go yellow to red REAL fast when the tank is empty. It is NOT very accurate in that sense, but does provide 30 minutes to 1 hour when I better have another tank ready.

Propane operation is a little puzzling to me and goes against what I know that keeping things warm (engine oil, other fluids, etc.) to keep things running does not apply with propane. Based on this, maybe Capt Kidd has the right idea, that any warmer difference of the propane tank's surrounding air from the very cold exterior air should suffice.

I, for one, am looking forward to some interesting problem descriptions and solutions.

I hope someone else can provide the solution for the OP in that there might be a problem going on here and what a better solution than a blanket or heat source of some kind would work.

Art,
I have done some research on the internet and have found some interesting facts. Yes propane boils at -44F, however, in the tanks are filled with propane liquid and the head space between the liquid and the top of tank allows for the liquid propane to boil off and produce vapour. At low temperatures, if the demand is greater than the production of propane vapour, the tank can essentially freeze up or stop producing vapour. The formation of the frost line is the indication of this happening. I have also read that Home Depot sells propane tank warmers to essentially improve the production of propane vapour. As I need the furnance to work I will be going to Home Depot to track down two of these tank warmers.

**DQDick** · 03-16-2013, 06:22 PM

Like several have suggested we use propane only to heat with when it's very cold and have never had an issue. Electric for water heater, fry pan and ref rig and propane for heat only.

bncinwv · 03-17-2013, 02:49 AM

Ozz, Your statement about drawing from both tanks has me confused. With the auto-switchover valves, how is this done. I am interested since this could help with our propane draw in colder temperatures with the genny. I thought the auto-switchover was either one side or the other, are you saying that by putting the switch in between that it draws from both tanks?
Bingo

Ozz · 03-17-2013, 03:31 AM

I could be mistaken, but I do thank it would draw from both if in the middle.

fauch · 03-17-2013, 06:14 AM

http://www.flameengineering.com/Propane_Info.html

kab449 · 03-17-2013, 01:13 PM

I did post a link a while ago to a company that sells the warming blanket, but they are pretty expensive. They also would require some mods to the trailer such as altering the retaining strap to make room for the blanket and supplying 120 volts to the propane compartment.

Biggjb · 03-17-2013, 02:29 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Capt Kidd

Why not just put a 12 volt trouble light in each compartment? That should keep it warm enough.

I went out to find a warming blanket, however, Lowes and Home Depot did have any and thanks to Capt Kidd, I used his suggestion and the trouble light heats the propane tank just enough to keep the propane flowing...Thanks Capt Kidd.

fauch · 03-18-2013, 04:58 AM

please be careful adding electrical devices in the propane storage spaces. The propane tank compartments are designed to be vented and separated from ignition sources. Adding an electric device to the tank compartment eliminates one of your layers of protection, or said another way, adds a RISK layer.

RichR · 03-18-2013, 07:35 AM

I camp out during hunting season in Colorado,have had temps well below zero and have never had propne flow trouble.

shovelhead86 · 03-18-2013, 03:02 PM

Thnks everyone I needed this humor. I heat my home with LP and also all the appliances are LP. They have not stopped working with -40 temp. This is common in northern Minnesota. We don't use any tank heaters. I don't see why you would have any problem with the warm temperature you are talking about.

vangoes · 03-19-2013, 03:26 AM

I had a problem one time with flow one morning a few years ago when temps were around 20. I used a hair dryer on the regulator and things started flowing normally. An employee at a gas distributor told me that this could be caused moisture/condensation in the tanks and it freezes in the regulator. When bottles are filled they need to be purged and then filled. If they arent, moisture will build up in the tanks. It all made sense to me and I have not had any problems since. If you will notice, some places always purge the tank and others dont.

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