Hitch Report - Montana Owners Club

stiles watson · 08-31-2007, 02:38 AM

This under the bed mounted hitch is great for me. The above the bed part of the hitch can be broken down easily into two pieces for single person removal. You do have to have a partner to pull the pin in the fender well. The hitch sets real flat, so I find it very easy to align and then adjust king pin height for a perfect connection. The jaws of the hitch are 1-1/8" thick for a secure connection. When it is unhitch time, you elevate the king pin until the jaws begin to separate (they are a bit tapered) and just pull away.

My old hitch was a serviceable husky with no frills that sat on the rails. So this is a significant upgrade for me. Being able to remove it (without a crane) to have a flat, railless utility bed in the truck is a real plus.

exav8tr · 08-31-2007, 05:48 AM

Stiles, What kind of hitch are you talking about??????

stiles watson · 08-31-2007, 10:38 AM

It is manufactured by B&W Trailer Hitches. The first piece is called a "Turnover Ball Gooseneck Hitch". It is mounted to your truck frame underneath the bed. There is a 3", maybe 3-1/2", hole drilled into the bed of the truck. The gooseneck ball receiver fits up through that hole and is nearly flush with the bed. The "turnover ball" fits into this square receiver and is locked in place with a 5/8" pin. The ball can be turned over and placed back into the receiver and is flush with the bed floor.

The second part is called the "Companion Fifth Wheel Hitch". The ball is removed from the receiver, then the Companion Hitch locks into the receiver and sets on the floor of the bed.

You can look it over at http://www.turnoverball.com/.

gj4040 · 09-02-2007, 07:48 AM

This system is ideal for people like us who also pull a gooseneck horse trailer with living quarters and a Montana 5th wheel. It is the only system that I know of that will not void your frame warranty with Lippert, Keystone and Mor=ryde if you happen to install the Mor-ryde pin adapter. I just spoke with a customer service rep. from Mor-ryde and confirmed that I could use the Companion hitch with their Mor-ryde system. I've got everything lined up for installation when the 2008 Super Duty gets here shortly.

muddflapp · 09-04-2007, 05:43 AM

I just bought a 2005 Ford F350 pick up with a turn over ball hitch already installed in the bed of the truck. I don't know if its a B&W manufatured hitch or not. It sure looks like the one on their website. I didn't know whether or not to go with the companion hitch or to get an adaptor to make the fifth wheel trailer into a gooseneck hitch. If I go with the adaptor, I don't have to worry about storing the fifth wheel hitch when I remove it from the truck. In the last response there was a mention of voiding the frame warranty. Is this on the Montana and how does an adaptor void the frame warranty?
I really need to know which way to go on this Gooseneck hitch that is already installed in my truck.

stiles watson · 09-04-2007, 02:40 PM

If it were me, I would use the companion hitch because then there is no question about stresses. Additionally,m I really like the way the companion hitch works.

Allen in MT · 09-30-2007, 01:10 PM

I have been looking all thru these forums looking for someone using the B&W system and was beginning to think no one did.
I have a B&W 5th wheel companion for the reason I also have a slide in camper and this hitch system is all under the trk bed and leaves a smooth bed for the slide in.
Like it alot better than the Reese I had befors.
It also came with the goose neck ball which I haven't used.
It has a TVW of 18000 lbs
Allen

Crossthread · 09-30-2007, 05:30 PM

I have one too,I tow a 3000RK with it. Its a good hitch, I have about 9k miles towing with it, can find no wear. I do lube the rubber cushions about once a month with white lithium grease.Bill

filler1775 · 02-05-2008, 04:04 PM

Has anybody tried to pull a Montana with the Companion fifth-wheel hitch that has a Mor/ryde pin box? I have read on other forumns (RV.net and others) and have exchanged an email with Mor/ryde about a problem with the length of the king pin that Mor/ryde installs on these pin boxes. Apparently this kingpin is 1/4" longer than standard kingpins. This causes the weight of the trailer to rest on the Companion hitch jaws instead of on the hitch skid plate.

I have a Montana on order with the Mor/ryde pin box and have a companion fifth-wheel hitch so I am very concerned about this possible incompatibility.

Crossthread · 02-05-2008, 04:29 PM

Filler, I have the Companion hitch with the Mor-ryde hitch #RPB72-1116 (19,000 k). I just went out and checked,and there's no sign of it touching the top of the jaws,although I do have the lube disk on the pin.
Also, with the rv resting on the companion hitch, I can pull the locking pin in the fender, set it off set to the side,and not have to remove the u bolts on the lower portion of the companion hitch. Bill

filler1775 · 02-05-2008, 05:03 PM

Thanks for the response, xthread. I will check to see that this is the part being installed at the factory.

The email from Mor-ryde stated:

"I do know that B&W has a hitch that has had some incompatibility issues with our pinbox. Beyond that I don't know the exact hitch that has had the issues. That said, attached is our replacement skid pad to resolve the issue--it contains a shortened king pin."

I am assuming that this is the Companion (only fifth-wheel hitch made for the Turnoverball by B&W?). They also sent me a diagram for the replacement skid pad (part # RPB71-013, "SKID PAD FOR B&W HITCH") I wonder if this is the hitch plate that you have (I did not see the part number you provided on the diagram)?

Did you install the Mor-ryde pinbox yourself or did the Keystone factory install it?

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by xthread

Filler, I have the Companion hitch with the Mor-ryde hitch #RPB72-1116 (19,000 k). I just went out and checked,and there's no sign of it touching the top of the jaws,although I do have the lube disk on the pin.
Also, with the rv resting on the companion hitch, I can pull the locking pin in the fender, set it off set to the side,and not have to remove the u bolts on the lower portion of the companion hitch. Bill

Delaine and Lindy · 02-06-2008, 03:04 AM

I have a B&W turnover ball and Companion 5th wheel hitch. Haven't towed with it yet. But will soon, so for I am very impressed with the B&W. It removes so easy, all I have to do is pull the lever under the bed, pull it out an move it to the left and it holds it open and them seperate the two parts of the 5th wheel and remove then drop in the turn-over ball and your bed is clean. I had Mor/Ryde pin box on the other 5er and couldn't use the plastic skid plate, it was just to tight the hitch wouldn't lock. I didn't know there were different size king pins?? That was news to me. I guess I had better call B&W and see what they say. I had a Trailer Saver air ride hitch on my other Trucks, it was used on three different Truck and was a awesome hitch. GBY....

WorkerB · 02-18-2008, 03:42 AM

In May of 2007 I bought a 2004 Chevy 2500HD Duramax Extended cab SHORT BED 4x4. The dealer removed the B&W hitch from under the bed and said because of liability issues they couldn’t sell the truck with the hitch installed. If I wanted to re-install the hitch it was my business but also my responsibility if I install the hitch
To date I have used the truck with our 8 ½ foot Lance cab over camper.
So far I have not needed the B&W gooseneck hitch so it is NOT installed. I also need the unobstructed bed for the camper.
Last weekend I bought a used 28’ Montana model M-2850RK.
Here come the questions!!
Do I simply install the B&W hitch and buy an adapter for the Montana converting it to a Gooseneck?
I found a 4” ball extender on ebay.
http://item.express.ebay.com/B-W-Turnover-Ball-
Gooseneck-Hitch-4-Ball-Extender_W0QQitemZ290207347163QQih
Z019QQcmdZExpressItem
Will this accomplish the same thing as a slider hitch?
I envision getting myself in a jam and stopping the whole backing in process remove the original ball, replace it with the 4” extension and continue the backing process without hitting the cab.
If I buy the B&W companion hitch will I have problems with my 4x4 (height) shortbed (length) using the companion hitch?
The previous Montana owner is going to deliver the trailer next week. I still have to get an electric brake controller installed and until I do something about a hitch all we have is excitement.
I am TOTALLY new to towing a 5th wheel.
Any advice is welcome and sincerely appreciated.
Thanks,
John S.

skypilot · 02-18-2008, 05:48 AM

There are several older threads both on our forum here but also out on RV.net where Lippert and Keystone were contacted. In all cases (that I remember anyway) the answer was always the same -- unless your 5er came from the factory equipped for towing using a gooseneck, don't do it. Lippert and Keystone both would disallow any warranty claims for damages to the front end of the trailer based upon the additional torsional stresses placed on the structure of the trailer by the Gooseneck.

That said, have 5th year (Senior) 'engineering student' working here with me today so I asked him. He said that the stresses on the pin assembly could be two to three times what would be expected using a 5th wheel hitch -- all depends on the length of the extension you have to run from the kingpin down to the ball in the bed or your truck. The longer the run, the more length the fulcrum has, and the more stress placed on the kingpin and superstructure of the trailer overhang.... Young man but he said if it were he, he would not do it!

stiles watson · 02-18-2008, 06:30 AM

I have, as stated earlier, the B&W turnover ball hitch with the 5th wheel companion hitch and think it is a great hitch. I would not put a gooseneck adapter on my Montana, however, the Companion Hitch is a fifth wheel hitch, not a gooseneck hitch. The Companion Hitch puts no more stress on the Montana's king pin than any fifth wheel hitch.

I really prefer the B&W under bed attachment to the rails-in-the-bed system of most fifth wheel hitches. When I remove the hitch, I have a clean, level bed to use. The under bed mounting can also take a gooseneck ball so that, should the need arise, I can pull a gooseneck trailer. When I want to remove the CH, it disconnects into two parts so that I can manage it alone.

If you have any questions about the height of the Companion Hitch, pick up the phone and call B&W's tech support and ask your question. As far as clearance, check out the alignment in my signature. I have a 4X4 dually.

Since you have a short bed, the Companion Hitch may not work. You will have to contact B&W to determine whether they have a slider companion. 5th Airboune may make a slider mechanism that works from the king pin and not the hitch. You would have to research it. I think it is called a "Sidewinder".

WorkerB · 02-18-2008, 06:43 AM

Thanks for the reply
I just got off the phone with B&W and they suggested the companion hitch. Maybe your engineer friend could address this logic / question. Right now the goose neck ball in the bed is 4" forward of the axle. The companion hitch will position the pin directly over the axle and can be adjusted to go as much as 7" behind the axle. The companion hitch distributes the weight over a larger area but I don't know how it affects the tow and ride down the road. Any Ideas? Thanks, John S.

WorkerB · 02-18-2008, 07:13 AM

Hi Stiles,
Thanks for the response. It looks like I have some homework to do. I suspect the CH will work but someone with actual experience will help so I don't have to build a whole new wheel. I'll check out the Airborn option. B&W gave me the following formula. Measure from the front of the bed to the hitch connection point. In my case from the front of the bed to 4" forward of the axle it is 36.5". If I slide the hitch back 4" directly over the axle it is 40.5". Now go to the Montana and measure from the center of the pin to the front corner of the cap. If the measurement is 40.5" or greater the cap will hit the cab. I called the seller and he measured 52'5". I think he messed up but if he is correct that means I would have to have the hitch 12.5 inches behind the axle or 25.5" from the tailgate in order to turn 90 degrees. Like i said I have some homework to do. I think no matter what I am not going to modify the Montana to a gooseneck. The sales rep also stated that the ride of a 5th wheel hitch is smoother than that of a gooseneck. One more tidbit of info I just came across is that there are two versions of gooseneck adapter. A longer neck for 2 wheel drive and a shorter neck for 4 wheel drives that are higher. It appears the shorter neck would have less leverage stress. Thanks again you have given me a lot of stuff to consider. Regards, John S.

stiles watson · 02-18-2008, 08:19 AM

I just did some measuring on my set up. The hole in the floor of my bed is forward of the center of the axle by about 5". From the center of that hole to the center of the king pin latch is 6-1/2". That places the downward weight spread out straddling the rear axle. I would think you would want a good portion of the footprint of the CH to be over the axle centerline. It does look as if there is possible adjustment.

The critical measurement would be from the centerline of the king pin to the corner of the Montana over hang as compared to the measurement from center of king pin latch to your back window of the truck.

skypilot · 02-18-2008, 11:01 AM

As Stiles mentioned above -- B&W Companion Hitch is a true 5th wheel hitch -- currently only one of two hitches that I know of that leave the floor totally flat - the other is the Reese Signature Series which has 4 pucks (holes) in the bed that the hitch connects to. You can buy a gooseneck hitch plate for the Signature series pucks but that runs a few $$$$$ as well. The Reese hitch also breaks down into two parts so it is easier to remove and reinstall..

skypilot · 02-18-2008, 11:11 AM

WorkerB - I was trying to find a link that would show you the measurements but with just a few minutes before class this is all I could find: http://www.etrailer.com/faq_fifthwheel.aspx . It shows the basic measurements. Now, a lot of people out there profess to towing using short bed trucks and no sliders -- have not had problems but then again, they probably haven't gotten into a situation where they had to do a really tight turn. But, as in all other things, it is only a matter of time until they will (or so some of us believe).

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