Weightsand counter weights. - Montana Owners Club

OntMont · 06-08-2005, 04:03 PM

We have been thinking of getting lighter replacement recliners. Got to thinking what this would do to our weights, we have lots of carrying capacity in the trailer, but we are tight on the truck. If we put lighter recliners in the back of the truck, do you think that will result in more weight on the truck. In other words, are those heavy recliners just counterweights to reduce the pin weight? Any thoughts?

rames14 · 06-08-2005, 05:04 PM

OntMont -

With the 3670, I believe your recliners are behind the trailer wheels, correct? If so, they remove weight from the pin. The 3400RL, I'm sure, has such a light pin weight because of the distribution of weight. The heavy stuff is over or behind the wheels on the trailer.

stiles watson · 06-08-2005, 05:15 PM

I agree, the physics of reducing the weight behind the wheels will increase the pin weight. Same principle as a teeter-totter.

nkwist · 06-08-2005, 05:26 PM

A teeter totter, yes, but a 13,000 lb. one. Most all of that weight is carried by the two trailer axles. Replacing the recliners with lighter ones will cause an insignificant change in your pin weight. You'll notice more change by carrying 10-20 gallons of water in the fresh tank.

stiles watson · 06-08-2005, 05:39 PM

No arguement from me about the net effect, but the principle stands.

Bill and Ann · 06-09-2005, 01:36 AM

John and Donna: We have been thinking about changing our recliners with the "Stressless Chairs" but...$$. We did change our chairs and sofa around. Moved the chairs to the side and the sofa to the rear. Worked out great. Now we are thinking we don't have to change the chairs as we don't have to move them when we pull the slides in. We like the setup a lot better also because it is easier to get to the shades at the side and Ann can use the sofa to get the the upper cupboards at the rear of the coach.

sreigle · 06-09-2005, 06:34 PM

John, I agree with the others about it reducing pinweight. But even if it added to the pinweight, the new chairs would weigh only, what, maybe ten or twenty pounds more than the old one? I think in that case my comfort would outweigh any worries about ten or twenty more pounds of pinweight. Just purely an opinion. In this case it will be easier on your truck.

sreigle · 06-10-2005, 04:52 AM

Well, I see I read your original post too quickly, John. You are thinking of putting lighter recliners behind the axles. That would both reduce overall weight but I'm not quite sure the actual effect on pinweight. Moving weight from behind the axles to in front of the axles would increase pinweight but you are talking about reducing overall weight by removing weight from behind the axles. That adds the second variable and is beyond my knowledge to figure. In any case, it's probably not enough difference to be noticeable anywhere except on a scale. At least I don't think so.

Bill and Ann · 06-11-2005, 12:56 AM

John (OntMont) We are due for our annual weighing. I will let you know if moving our chairs to the side has made any difference. I really don't think it will. (I have to blame something for the weight change and not my packratting)

rickfox · 06-20-2005, 03:44 PM

Here's perhaps more than you ever wanted to know about this topic!? I have been doing quite a lot of measuring and weighing these days as I try to decide which new Montana to purchase, and how I'm going to carry my HD motorcycle. Here's what I've found.

As mentioned earlier, adding or taking weight away from behind the trailer axles causes the same effect as you would expect with a teeter totter - its just the laws of physics at work. If the support (axle) is exactly in the center of the teeter tooter, then reducing the weight at one end appears to make the other end seem that much heavier in that the same weight would have to be removed from that end also in order to keep everything in balance.

However, in the world of trailers there are several differences. 1) the distance from the axle to the hitch pin is typically greater than the distance from the axle to the rear of the trailer. This typically ensures that the trailer will be nose heavy with sufficient weight on the hitch. Since the 3400RL, 3475, and the 3670 have pretty close to the same front and rear dimensions with respect to the axles, they appear to respond about the same to weight changes.

2) Since there are typically 2 or 3 axles on most 5th wheels, weight changes are not fully transmitted to the other end. For example, a 2-axle setup "absorbs" a portion of the changed weight at the rear and thus the hitch does not feel the full effect of the change. Based upon placing various weights at the rear of my 5th wheel, and measuring the effects on the hitch, approximately 15% of the weigh is absorbed within the tandom axles with only 85% being transmitted to the hitch.

The long and short of it is that our measurements and weighing indicate that for the above sites models, adding 100# to the rear will cause about a 48# change to the hitch. Perhaps, for these models, a ballpark figure is a two-for-one. Adding (or subtracting) 2# at the rear will cause an opposite 1# change on the hitch.

But most people don't care.

sreigle · 06-21-2005, 12:42 PM

Interesting info, Rick. Thanks. I noticed when we weighed our rig hitched to the truck and then weighed the truck again not hitched, instead of some of the pinweight going on the front axle, it actually lightened weight on the front truck axle by 120 lbs. Slightly different topic but interesting to me, anyhow. So determining actual pinweight means subtracting total truck weight unhitched from hitched rather than just the rear axle weight. In my case, figuring pinweight solely by the rear axle weights would overstate the pinweight by 120 lbs, when that 120 lbs is actually truck weight shifted from front to back. The pin center is directly over the axle center (shortbed truck).

OntMont, did you change out the chairs and do any weighings yet?

jerryb · 06-21-2005, 02:43 PM

Eat more ice cream to make up for the weight loss of the chairs.

rickfox · 06-23-2005, 11:26 AM

Very good point! You are correct. Amazingly, every time I have weighed my truck along with the trailer, the TV front wheels have have weighed the same as with the truck w/o the trailer. Apparently, my hitch is almost dead on the center of the rear axle, therefore not transferring any weight to the front.

I have seen several long bed trucks that that when measured show several hundred pounds additional load to the front tires - indicating the hitch is to the front side of the rear axle.

OntMont · 06-28-2005, 09:43 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by sreigle

OntMont, did you change out the chairs and do any weighings yet?

No, no new chairs yet. (Been thinking of adding sand bags though

)

Bill and Ann · 06-29-2005, 01:08 AM

John and Donna: We moved the chairs to the side and the sofa bed to the rear. Does it ever make it nice to watch TV and get to the upper cupboards. She says it is easier to open the shades also. Don't think it will change the weights but at least we now don't have to move the chairs sideways to close the slides like we did before.

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