Warning re solar gland & howto pull new wires

[PNW Fireguy]

If you are using the OEM Jaboni MPPT charger supplies by Keystone you should know that the max rated wire size is 10 AWG not 4. Also the max output wire size is 8 AWG.

4 panels with 9 amps isc can produce greater amperage than the allowable ampacity for the factory wiring at 10 or 12 based upon continuous duty rating.

[bcrvman]

Originally Posted by PNW Fireguy

If you are using the OEM Jaboni MPPT charger supplies by Keystone you should know that the max rated wire size is 10 AWG not 4. Also the max output wire size is 8 AWG.

4 panels with 9 amps isc can produce greater amperage than the allowable ampacity for the factory wiring at 10 or 12 based upon continuous duty rating.

Not using Jaboni, never heard of them. Victron equipment.
The 10awg is from panel to roof entry and carries about 9 amps at 19 volts. Its after the roof combiner that it has to be spec'd for 36 amps (4 panels x 9 amps each).
23' of 10awg at 36 amps gives 14% loss.
See for yourself https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

[bcrvman]

Originally Posted by PNW Fireguy

If those panels have blocking diodes I would wire them in series to raise your vollage. The panels are already such a low Voc I think you would be much better off. You are never going to see 36 amps output. Those numbers are STC. Anyway just verify if they have a diode and you might be able to save yourself some headache and obtain an outcome that actually performs better than the original design. Pushing 8 amps at 80V through an MPPT controller will give you a better outcome.



The wires have markings on the outer jacket detailing the type and gauge of wire. If the wire is stapled you are not going to be able to pull it out. I would think that there would probably be a sufficient amount at the controller to pull enough out to see the markings. Your 12AWG can carry 20 amps.

As a retired electrician I know how to read a wire. The controller obviously isn't installed and hooked up if I am still looking for a place to run the wires, or did I misunderstand you?

[bcrvman]

Originally Posted by PNW Fireguy

If you are using the OEM Jaboni MPPT charger supplies by Keystone you should know that the max rated wire size is 10 AWG not 4. Also the max output wire size is 8 AWG.

4 panels with 9 amps isc can produce greater amperage than the allowable ampacity for the factory wiring at 10 or 12 based upon continuous duty rating.

Using 8awg for the output would suffer 8.91% loss.

[PNW Fireguy]

Jaboni was mentioned earlier. In looking back at the post it looks like that was an example posted by another member. Your original post led me to believe that you had the controller as a part of the OEM prep. One electrical professional to another I am sure that you will know what size wire to use and how to install it and how to identify what is existing.

[bcrvman]

I appreciate the feedback and ideas, but it sounds to me that some of you are unfamiliar with ohms law. The problem is the 23 ft run, 9' of which is from the ceiling to the floor. I am now looking at mounting the combiner down in the wiring chase. I might be able to gain 3 to 5 ft. It also depends on which calculator I use. However, 10awg wire is waaaaaay too small. When they use 10awg on the individual panels, it's 9amps for 10 ft which is a loss of 1.54%. It should be obvious that quadrupling the current and doubling the length simply will not work.
Tomorrow when the sky isn't looking like lightning is possible I will go on the roof to determine if/how I can get the wires down the fan opening. From there it looks simple.

[speedster100]

Picked up some MC4 connectors at the Solar Shop, brought them home, grabbed one of the adapters I have for my GO Power Panel Kit, cut off the connectors & soldered on the MC4 connectors. Put the panel on the roof & plugged it into the receiver up on the roof and away it went. Unplugged the trailer from AC power & turned on the roof vent fans, fridge running on propane and had about 12.4 Volts prior to plugging in the solar panel to the system. After about 10 minutes with panel in direct overhead sunlight was up to 12.6 volts and after a half hour had 12.8 volts so its charging. Then did some digging around and removed the panel in the storage area. It appears that both the bigger wire and the smaller wire run to the batteries. They are rolled up together behind the panel in the storage area along with a wire to feed your gauge. The larger & smaller positive & negative wires are connected together in the roll. I'm good to go with what I have now.... Hung my TV in the storage area while I had the panel off, beer time now.

[jetskier]

Jaboni is/appears to be a relabeled Victron. They look the same and use the same display.

[bcrvman]

Originally Posted by jetskier

Jaboni is/appears to be a relabeled Victron. They look the same and use the same display.

The only product I see is panels (I don't use Victron, don't think they sell them) and 2 controllers. Victron has dozens of controllers, mine is 100V/50A embedded bluetooth. Where are the hybrid inverters, display panels, and several ways to network, plus world wide access thru the VRM portal.
Since this is Keystone the solar equipment will be bottom of the line. The only good thing is they have the new batteries from Dragonfly/Battle Born. It sounds like they are giving away the batteries for a really good price in order to get market penetration and recognition. As I understand it the package is priced at $20,000. I spent about half that but if I had it installed it would be that and more.

[PNW Fireguy]

I don't think Jaboni Power products are built on Victron OEM parts or components.

[Buzz19766]

I'm trying to find my wires too that are supposed to be behind the passenger side panel in the storage area but they are not there?
I will pull the control panel off next to see if they are there.

[Daryles]

Originally Posted by Buzz19766

I'm trying to find my wires too that are supposed to be behind the passenger side panel in the storage area but they are not there?
I will pull the control panel off next to see if they are there.

Depending on the model they could be on the other side. In the Jaboni install video the installer was on the left side.
I found the grey communication wire in my control panel under all the other wires.

[Buzz19766]

Thanks for rhe reply. The other side has most if the plumbing and cable connections but could be hidden in there somewhere.
Thanks again

[mr68gts]

I know on my 3810ms the controller is behind the wall in the basement. I had to remove it to gain access to the loose connections for the water supply system. I'm wondering if they stepped down the guage wire after the controller maybe? I'm not comprehending why there would be 2 different guage wires otherwise. When I did the system in our other trailer, I used the same gauge cable throughout.

[mr68gts]

Originally Posted by Daryles

Here are the Jamboni videos that show the location of the wiring.
Someone else mentioned above about if the current wiring is stapled it will be very difficult/impossible to use the existing wire as pulls.
Some people have used the vent pipes to run the wiring through. If you use #4 stranded wire it will be easier to pull (flexible).
Picture shows behind my control panel and behind the basement walls.
Jaboni/Montana solar prep
https://youtu.be/mhE9pSum_nA

Jaboni/Montana solar install
https://youtu.be/gn3BIWaSb4c

Good hell! I thought the wiring on ours was bad.....

[mmturtle]

I used a vent pipe to pull new wires from the roof into the storage compartment

[docmoose]

Thanks for this. I just got a 2021 High Country and I'm installing 4 210W panels (12v which is requiring high amperage, even in series).

I'm replacing the current 10g from the roof with 6g. I was really hoping to be able to pull through the new wires, but alas they are not budging from either side. I am definitely leaning toward the vent pipe idea. Any more details you can provide? Did you just drill a hole in the side and then seal it up?

Anyone else have luck pulling through the existing wires or an alternate solution?

Cheers!

[bcrvman]

Originally Posted by docmoose

Thanks for this. I just got a 2021 High Country and I'm installing 4 210W panels (12v which is requiring high amperage, even in series).

I'm replacing the current 10g from the roof with 6g. I was really hoping to be able to pull through the new wires, but alas they are not budging from either side. I am definitely leaning toward the vent pipe idea. Any more details you can provide? Did you just drill a hole in the side and then seal it up?

Anyone else have luck pulling through the existing wires or an alternate solution?

Cheers!

If all the panels are in series, then the amperage is roughly 10 amps. For 10awg you get 2.5% V drop over 30 ft, 1.7% over 20ft. You should be fine. A 100/20 MPPT will be plenty.

[Dmcgrew]

I recommend not using the vent pipe to run the wires. They used mine when it was installed and I have had nothing but terrible odors ever since. I finally removed the wires from the vent pipe and drilled holes into the roof and ran the wires down through the back of the cabinets to the controller. I was never able to seal the hole up in the vent pipe where the cables exited and I had sewer gas leak into the storage area beneath the front of the trailer. Take the extra time and effort to run the wires properly and don’t mess with the vent pipe if you can avoid it!!

[PNW Fireguy]

Originally Posted by bcrvman

If all the panels are in series, then the amperage is roughly 10 amps. For 10awg you get 2.5% V drop over 30 ft, 1.7% over 20ft. You should be fine. A 100/20 MPPT will be plenty.

With those panels wired in series with a Voc of roughly over 100v voltage drop is not an issue. The drop is also predicated upon voltage rather than current over the distances noted. In addition I would highly recommend that you use a temp corrected Voc to determine the size of your charge controller. At low temps you will definitely surpass the ratings of the 100/20 MPPT unit referenced.