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Old 06-16-2021, 04:02 PM   #1
Bulldog59
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Montana Bottom

We are new to this. We have a 2020 Montana 3791, looking from about 20 yards away from the side of the camper the tanks(assuming the Black and Grey tank area in the front) seem to be about 2-3" below the frame. Its just a sort of a bulge not the complete tank area. Is this normal? Any help much appreciated.
 
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Old 06-16-2021, 04:12 PM   #2
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Are you sure it's the tanks and not just the chloroplast underbelly material sagging. Craw under the trailer and push up, see if there is something relatively solid behind it or if it's just the chloroplast sagging.

I'm prone to think it's just the chloroplast. They attach it on the 2 main frames and between the two main frames, here's about 5 feet of distance (or more) and the shear weight of the material causes it to sag between that distance. It doesn't hurt anything for it to sag some although if you look close, it does look odd.

If it really is the tank when you push up on the underbelly, is the tank full or empty? If full, what happens to the sagging when they are empty?
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Old 06-17-2021, 05:56 AM   #3
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Could also indicate a water leak. I have had clear water in mine several times and have yet to find the source. Good news is that the water is clear (not from gray/black tank). Bad news is there is a leak somewhere.
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Old 06-17-2021, 10:39 AM   #4
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If you go under the unit and poke a small hole in the lowest area of the bulge you can see if you are holding water in the underbelly. I've had this problem also and like Dam Miller they can't find the problem or the leak. They are working on it presently to see if they can find it. All tanks full and no leak so far.
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Old 06-17-2021, 10:50 AM   #5
Kyle and Lisa
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We had the same issue, after inspecting the underbelly I sealed off the edges with gorilla tape. Rain water was getting in around the edges, no issues since.
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Old 06-30-2021, 04:09 PM   #6
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I had the same rain water issue as “wrinkles” in the Coraplast along the bottom edge of the sides apparently were allowing water to wick down the curved lower edges of the bottom metal sides .
Tape and mostly caulking fixed it.
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Old 07-07-2021, 08:47 PM   #7
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Battle of the Bulge

I too, am just discovering this issue. My wife and I just started full time living literally a week ago. I had not emptied our tanks at all yet, thinking that it might take a while for them to fill up… Well, that was my first mistake! I was outside today in a windstorm just checking on a couple of things around the trailer, when I had this gut feeling to just glance under the trailer and see what things look like under there. To my horror I discovered this massive bulge in the front section of that black corrugated underbelly material. I’ve heard several people on this forum refer to that as “cloroplast“ so I suppose that’s what I’m seeing.

When I pushed up on it, it very clearly is full of water. I then went in and checked my tank sensors and discovered that all my tanks were full! So, after a quick run to the local hardware store to get some extra sewage hose, I drained my tanks (which was an adventure unto itself since I have the two drai systems and was not adequately oriented on how to properly drain the system).

The problem that I still have though is that my black tank 1 and gray tank 1 sensor still show that they are full… Although I know that quite a bit of liquid came out when I drained. I also noticed that the gigantic bulge is still there, indicating that there is a bunch of trapped water in that lining. I have no idea if it’s gray water, black water, regular water, rainwater, condensation from the AC units, no clue at all… but, I am going to have to undo a couple of those securement bolts and let all that water out at some point. I’m going to have to relocate my unit in about three weeks to our more permanent resting place… So over the next couple of weeks I will be embarking on the troubleshooting to try and figure out if I have a leak, or if I’m collecting condensation from the AC units, or... Who knows, maybe the water was there from the previous owner… (I bought the unit from a dealership that had one previous owner for a brief period of time).
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Old 07-07-2021, 10:02 PM   #8
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Update: I detached a big corner of the coraplast and gallons of water spilled out. Clear water... so... going to let things dry out for a day and then go a hunting for leaks.
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Old 07-08-2021, 10:32 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Rumusical2 View Post
Update: I detached a big corner of the coraplast and gallons of water spilled out. Clear water... so... going to let things dry out for a day and then go a hunting for leaks.
Soo... I let down the remainder of the coraplast and there was still trapped moisture between a thin layer of reflectix (is that Keystones version of insulation??) and the coraplast itself. No obvious leak seen.

I did notice that as I was taking off the coraplast that somebody has obviously taken it down before… Multiple bolts and washers missing, sections of chloroplast that had torn through bolts and washers, etc. I guess the next step is to call up the dealership where I bought the unit and see if they have any maintenance records. I think the previous owners had purchased the unit from the same dealership, so maybe I’ll get lucky and find something out.

One question for the members here though, I took a picture of the underside after I took the coraplast off and all of the wiring harnesses are just loose and came down in one big pile when I pulled off the sheet. Is that normal for the folks to just stuff those wires up and cover them with the coraplast like that? Or are they supposed to be wire-tied off and arranged in some sort of organized fashion?

I have attached a photo of what I found.
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Old 07-08-2021, 11:28 AM   #10
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They assemble the frames and 'install' the wires and some of the chassis upside-down. The Coroplast goes on last.
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Old 07-08-2021, 12:08 PM   #11
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I don't know what "normal" is for Keystone's wiring practices, but that seems like an awful lot of excess. I've pushed up on the coroplast on my HC and haven't felt any real resistance that would indicate anything weighing it down. I think you would feel all of that extra wiring.
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Old 07-08-2021, 12:45 PM   #12
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Now that you have found water in the underbelly, (and sorry to hear that by the way), you can determine if you have a leak from a fresh water pipe pretty quick. You can also determine if you have a leak on one of your holding tanks pretty fast also, especially since you removed the chloroplast underbelly.

First, add water to your fresh water tank and simply turn on your water pump and let your pipes pressurize. Now, sit back and wait. If there is any kind of leak in your water pipes.... anywhere ... you'll hear the water pump kick on and off and on and off cycling. Unless you have a pressure tank installed, it takes only about 2 ounces of water for the pressure to drop enough to kick the pump on. If you have all your faucets turned off, and the pump is cycling on and off ... you know you have a leak somewhere in the pipes.

Now, if the pump does not cycle on and off, then fill your fresh water tank, fill your grey tanks and fill your black tank and wait. If you have a break, a leak, or anything wrong ... you'll see water coming from under them somewhere. You know where the problem is.

If you still have no leaks, then the problem is rain intrusion. Finding the source could be challenging, but at least you know it's not anything related to your water system leaking.


Before tearing more apart, try these 3 things first and eliminate them. It could save you a world of headache and expense, especially if you start disassembling things.
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Old 07-08-2021, 02:21 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by DutchmenSport View Post
Now that you have found water in the underbelly, (and sorry to hear that by the way), you can determine if you have a leak from a fresh water pipe pretty quick. You can also determine if you have a leak on one of your holding tanks pretty fast also, especially since you removed the chloroplast underbelly.
Outstanding troubleshooting steps... I will give those a shot. I may have gotten “lucky” though because as I was cleaning up the wiring mess down there with about 100 zip ties, I was just finishing up when I felt a drip of water. I looked up and coming from where a couple of wires for the tank heater appear to go into the tank, there is water dripping when I push on the “heating pad” stuff that is adhered to the tank. Doesn’t seem like much of a leak... but I suppose as the tank fills and the weight increases, that little failure may be able to drip some good quantities over time.

I don’t know how the heating element stuff was installed so before I just start peeling off the pad I thought I would look up and installation video and then work backward.

Pictures of my wiring cleanup attached, picture of my leak, and a picture of the tank heater manufacturer label.

Thanks all!!
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Old 07-08-2021, 02:37 PM   #14
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Those tank heater wires don't go into the tank. The heating pad could merely be leaking what absorbed between it and the tank. My suspicion is that the leak is from the top portion of tank when full. I would fill the grey tank and see what happens from below. It is common for some tank designs to split at the top, or the plumbing going out the top of the tank cracks.cracks
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Old 07-08-2021, 02:44 PM   #15
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Those tank heater wires don't go into the tank. The heating pad could merely be leaking what absorbed between it and the tank. My suspicion is that the leak is from the top portion of tank when full. I would fill the grey tank and see what happens from below. It is common for some tank designs to split at the top, or the plumbing going out the top of the tank cracks.cracks
Oooohhh... well shoot. Makes sense what you are saying. Looks like my project for tomorrow is to fill up the grey tank and watch for the flood. What a disaster that will be if my tank is cracked.
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Old 07-08-2021, 06:09 PM   #16
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I see self tapping screws with large washers. Not sure what your rig's coroplast was attached with, but my 2021 seems to use driven nails. I don't see how to remove mine, but I do need to replace some and re-strech/ seal my underbelly before my first trip.

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Old 07-08-2021, 06:27 PM   #17
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Old 07-08-2021, 06:32 PM   #18
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Thanks Mark
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Old 07-08-2021, 06:34 PM   #19
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I see self tapping screws with large washers. Not sure what your rig's coroplast was attached with, but my 2021 seems to use driven nails. I don't see how to remove mine, but I do need to replace some and re-strech/ seal my underbelly before my first trip.

Allen
A keen eye... yes, those are the fasteners for the coraplast on my rig.
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Old 07-08-2021, 08:45 PM   #20
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I hope I'm wrong but pls keep us posted.

Also, if the coroplast was held up with screws, it was likely pulled down at some time. Those darn nails are a real joy. It helps to give them a spin with a 1/4" socket before pulling them out.
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