Kipor generator--problem solved???

[David and Jo-Anna]

Yesterday, we started having significant problems with our Kipor generator. The generator began to fluxuate up and down--it would start to die, then kick back up to speed and run fine for several minutes, then suddenly start to die again. Occasionally it would stall outright--other times, the voltage level dropped enough when it was dying that our Surge Guard would disconnect the incoming power. It's almost like the engine is starving for fuel and/or air when it starts to die.

Looking inside the compartment, I can't spot anything obvious--except for the fact that there is a piece of clear tubing (18" long, one-quarter inch in diameter) just lying there, not connected to anything. I confess that I had not previously noticed this piece of tubing, so I don't know what it was previously connected to--but I have to believe it is there for a reason, and that it being disconnected is not a good thing, whether or not it is causing the engine to die from time to time. [FYI, there is still a set of pink/red tubing that connects to the carburetor that is still in place].

Any suggestions as to what is causing my problem? And/or where that plastic tubing should be attached (a picture showing where it is attached would really be helpful as I'm not great at interpreting directions which assume I know what the parts of the engine are--LOL)

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Art-n-Marge]

There are a few Kipor generator owners who might be able to add something, but I'll list the first things to check:

- Make sure there's plenty of fuel and that it is not OLD. Fuel does start to sludge up if it sits over a long time. When was the last time you used it? For long term storage if you are unable to drain the fuel tank there is an additive you can add to the tank, but I forget the name and make sure you follow its directions.
- Same with oil, you should change it out every 6 months to a year, again depending on how much you use it, but in your case I would think you are having a fuel flow problem.
- a clear line? Is it plastic? it might be part of a fuel line or an overflow. I take it it wasn't connected to anything when you found it. You might look straight up from where it was positioned to see if it dropped off anything.
- Does your Kipor have a fuel filter that might get clogged? Again, caused by long durations since use.
- Make sure there is nothing crawled up in the exhaust pipe. This could also cause some sputter.
- When was the last time the carburetor was cleaned? Using carburetor cleaner once a year (or refer to your manual) to prevent sludge buildup might help.
- Lastly, if it has been a while since you last used it, warm it up for a while (5-10 minutes) before putting it under a load.

I have two Honda generators I fire up for 5-10 minutes every 2-4 weeks just to keep them going. I do this by carting around the generator and my compressor every other week to check the tires in my fleet (Truck, car, trailer). My compressor gets used and so does my generator. I alternate each generator to ensure a minimum of once a month usage. I might do it more often, but a minimum is twice a month.

Hopefully some else can come along and provide some help. Let us know what you find.

[bncinwv]

David,
I will check my Kipor tonight and post a picture by morning if someone doesn't beat me to it. It sounds like a fuel filter problem though. Is there an in-line filter?? Again, it will be tonight before I can check mine.
Bingo

[Emmel]

Being a Kipor owner, I will jump in and suggest checking something as simple as the fittness of the gas cap. My Kipor would do as you say and the gas cap is not vented. I unscrewed the cap just a little and it has run fine since. I found this out when it actually had stopped. I unscrewed the cap and heard the air rush out from pressure buildup. The gen was being used and was warm when I filled it up only to run about another few minutes. The cool gas and warm tank built up enough pressure that we had line freeze and the engine quite. Other than that, we've had very good results with our 3500Kipor.

[richfaa]

Check what Steve said above about the gas cap. You can get a vented one from Kipor. We had that issue also. We have the KGE 3500 (aka 3000) TI.

We do not have a 18'' long clear plastic tubing. We do have a long one 8" long and a short one 5" long both on the carb. The short one is connected to a fitting on the very bottom of the carb bowel an goes out the bottom of the compartment. The long one is connected to a fitting at the top of the carb and goes out the same hole as the short one. Ours is running as we speak on the monthly gen test and we removed one then then other hose with NO ill effect. Sounds like you may have picked up some dirt in the lines, or carb..or the issue Steve refers to. Check that gas cap..... I have no idea how to clean the lines and I am mechanically challenged....OH... There is a small nut on the very bottom of the carb bowel that you can loosen and drain the fuel out of the bowel. A small speck of dirt may come out. A honda guy told me how to do that.

[HughM]

To keep gas fresh before it goes bad use Sta-Bil. It will keep gas good for one year. If you didn't use Sta-Bil and your gas is bad its varnished the jet on the carb. Then use a product named SeaFoam. It'll clean the varnish from the bowl and jets.
Another trick is if you suspect that your old gas is the problem then start the engine and while it's running spray carb choke cleaner down the intake of the carb. It'll smoke and choke down but will also clean the varnish out of the jet.
Hugh

[David and Jo-Anna]

Thanks for the advice and comments to date. Some prelim responses.

I tried loosening the gas cap last night several times, with no success. I changed the oil back in April, but I just changed it again yesterday afternoon to be on the safe side, but still had problems.

My current gas is fresh--just bought it three weeks ago. The last two batches before that were also fresh, as we've been using the generator a lot since we left Organ Pipe Nat'l Monument in mid-April. I'm sure in the past I've had gas in the tank too long before putting in some Sta-Bil, so I dumped in a bottle of STP fuel system cleaner yesterday to clean out any crud that may have built up. Should I still go look for the Sea Foam? By the way, how long can you keep gas in the tank before you have to dump in the Sta-Bil to avoid the risk of varnishing things?

Fuel filter--My manual (section 7.4) refers to a "fuel sediment cup" which you have to open the maintenance cover to find, which means it's something other than the fuel strainer under the filler cap. But the manual doesn't tell me where to look for it or what it looks like. Anyone know where it is and what it looks like and how you clean it?

I'm sure my paper air cleaner/filter could use a changing, so I'll try to buy a new one on line. My Owners Manual (section 7.3) also refers to a foam filter, but I've never had one--do any of you Kipor owners have a foam filter as well as the paper filter?

Rich--sounds like your plastic tubing setup is different from mine--my pink tubing does not go out the bottom of the compartment but is all right there in front of the maintenance cover/door. Could you post a picture of how your tubing is configured.

[bncinwv]

I am now assuming that the problems seemed to start after dumping in the bottle of STP fuel treatment. Isn't an entire bottle excessive for the size tank on the Kipor?? Just curious if this is the problem. You may want to dump the gas tank and start over with fresh gas. Just a thought! oN another thought, if the gas has 10% ethanol, the shelf life is about three-four months before excess moisture absorption and phase separation begins. The only time I use Stabil is when I store for the winter
Bingo

[noneck]

Right...order of what to check
1) Air filter...if paper you can clean it a bit by removing brush off and tapping lightly on hard surface to get dirt off or change it out
2) Pull spark plug...inspect for build up of carbon deposits...they are cheap just change it
3) something in fuel...maybe water?...pull line off carb and drain into container...let settle and look for water bubble at bottom its heavier.
Let us know if anything shows from doing these things...
I see according to the service manual they have a stepper motor that operates the throttle...you can google Kipor 3000Ti and download it as well.

[ols1932]

Though my generator is a Honda 2000, I'll add my experience. Ours gummed up from sitting (due to my back surgery). I took it in to a recommended small engine/generator shop in Catoosa, OK. For $85 they got it running, however it just didn't run right and wouldn't generate enough power to run my wife's hair blower. But it did run well enough to charge the batteries. The technician there said, "Do not use Sta-bil. It gums up worse than if let setting."

I then took it in to an authorized Honda repair facility in Cedar Rapids, IA where they repaired it for $225. They said, "For your type of use, by all means use Sta-bil in the gas. That way you don't have to be worried about running it so often."

I called Honda Corp. and asked them about using Sta-bil. They said, "That's all we recommend for putting in the gas. It DOES NOT cause the gas to gum up worse." So you see, everyone is doing the right thing when they use Sta-bil. I also like the idea that I don't have to lug it up out of my tool box and start it regularly. Which makes me think, "I'd better get it out and run it and I will when I get the truck back from the garage (it's been there for 10 days now for mechanical repairs). But that's another topic I'll report on soon.

Orv

[bncinwv]

David,
I don't know whether this will help or not, but here is a picture inside of the door of our Kipor:

IF I can help any further, let me know,
Bingo

[richfaa]

Ours looks exactly like Bingo's

[David and Jo-Anna]

Bingo--Thanks for the picture. I can't tell for sure by looking at it--do you have anything like the 18" clear plastic tube that I found loose in my generator?

Bingo and Rich--can you tell me where the pink/red tubing from your carburetor goes to? With mine, the piece connected to the top of the carburetor connects with the piece from the bottom of the carb, with a single piece coming out of that joint and just pointing up into the air. Does the piece of tube pointing downward in yours connect to something below, or do the two pieces of tubing just come together at the joint and then just terminate in an open end pointing towards the bottom of the compartment?

[richfaa]

They are separate pieces of tubing and they both go out a hole in the bottom of the compartment. Sounds like on yours they used a single piece of tubing and y'ed it. When mine was running I removed both tubes with no ill effects. My guess is they are both vents. From your description it sounds exactly what mine will do when I turn the fuel off and it runs out of gas. At the very end it will surge. The load we have connected to it(2 100 watt lights) will flicker (frequency varying) then it shuts down. Sure sounds like you got some bad fuel or dirt in the lines. I have no idea how to purge the system..

[David and Jo-Anna]

Well, I think the fuel system cleaner may have done the trick--the generator is running much smoother and quieter now--hope it's not just a temporary reprieve.

One of the several things that puzzles me is what I found when I took out the spark plug to check it out. The operating end of the plug was black (carbon deposits?), and the threads were wet. Since I don't see any smoke in the exhaust, I assume the wetness is gasoline. So what's it doing there, and is that a problem? And if it's a problem, why is everything running smoothly now? {I didn't replace the spark plug yet--I figured to wait a few days while the fuel system cleaner continues to clean out gunk before putting in a new plug.]

Also, I think I figured out where the "fuel sediment cup" (mentioned in section 7.4 of the owner's manual) is at--I think it's in the area where the lower pink tube comes out. Rich, I believe that small screw you mentioned for draining the carburetor actually drains the "fuel sediment cap." When I opened the screw, about an eighth of a cup of gas drained out, and there were some small black specks of dirt in the gas.

[noneck]

Some black around the center ceramic electrode is normal, it can foul and start arcing at the base which will cause the engine to not run. New plugs are like $3.00.
Black specs...well that's interesting, are they small enough to pass through the tank strainer? Sounds like you got bad gas and might be right cleaner got it going again.

[bncinwv]

Thanks for the update David, my faith in our Kipor has been renewed!!
Bingo

[richfaa]

"Rich, I believe that small screw you mentioned for draining the carburetor actually drains the "fuel sediment cap." When I opened the screw, about an eighth of a cup of gas drained out, and there were some small black specks of dirt in the gas."
I am sure that is correct as we know little about motors. Do you have the filter screen under the gas cap?? that should keep out dirt. I did dran that cup yesterday and the fuel was clean.

[David and Jo-Anna]

Rich, I do have the fuel strainer under the filler cap. Some of the black specks that came out of the fuel sediment tank looked a little too big to have passed through the strainer. So color me puzzled!

Thanks to you and everyone else for your help. Hope the problem doesn't reoccur when I really need the generator.