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Old 06-11-2008, 12:17 AM   #1
Wiarton William
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Need this thought clarified!

After playing on the scales and coming up with the weights I am left with one question...On My drivers licence I am allowed to tow an RV that weighs up to 10138 lbs.....and the GCW of 24250lbs.....

My RV weighs 14100lbs with a PIN weight of approx 2100lbs and CCC of 4000lbs.. the "scaled" weight is 10900lbs which is still 760lbs over my licence limit....When I weigh RV attached to the TV... will this spread the RV weight over the entire rig??... my question is.....does the PIN weight of 2100 lbs come OFF the weight of the RV axles and get added onto the TV axles thereby reducing the weight of the RV?? this would then put the weight of the towed RV down to about 8800 lbs which is well under my Drivers licence max?????????
 
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:00 AM   #2
Bill and Ann
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Don: OntMont and I had the same questions. I took my weigh ticket with the rig attached to the license bureau and the TV is licensed at the max 9600 lbs. and the rig was under the 10000 lb. hooked up. I am legal to tow with a G license. I looked for our previous posts on this subject but can't find it. Maybe John (OntMont) will jump in and add to your post.
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:14 AM   #3
Wiarton William
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Thanks Bill....I cant see your rig profile but assume your RV is similar to mine in weight..I am overlimit by about 800 lbs.....IF the PIN weight comes OFF the RV weight when attached to the TV I am fine....If not I will be putting myself in an awkward position...something I dont want to do...I know the answer to it all but I cant see that happening...
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:52 PM   #4
OntMont
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Don,

The weight of 8800 lbs on the trailer's axles is the weight that you need to look at. In your case, I don't see any problem with your trailer weight and your Class G license.
Bill has a 3670RL same as me, except his is a Big Sky.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:19 AM   #5
Wiarton William
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Well,,, I cant help but to take the advice of two guys that seem to understand what is needed....The photos say it all...How could I not listen to those faces...Thanks....

Don..
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:00 PM   #6
Wiarton William
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From another forum....but a quote by a friend of mine who is still active.........Spoke to an MTO Officer today as they were weighing Dump truck for over weight. Two questions I wanted answered.
1. Which weight is used for the 4600Kgs to have an 'A' licence..
2. medical requirements on an 'A' R licence.

Answers:
1. The GVWR is used and what is stamped on the trailer (Unless the trailer is obviously misweighed then it would be weighed) and
2. Same as the regular 'A'.

I guess getting weighed will be the norm, not really what I wanted to hear......keeping the RV weight down will also be a daily fight along with the waistline..... I cant see them using the placard weight as a statement of fact or the starting place for enforcement action... that would be akin to insinuating that your car can do 200 MPH so you will be ticketed for that speed instead of what you were doing..........
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Old 06-12-2008, 03:41 PM   #7
OntMont
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I don't think that is right. (I have been told before that enforcement officers on the road are mostly after dangerous trucks and don't really know much about RVs). Consider what is written on the new MOT RV website: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/rv/part2a.shtml

towed vehicles
means a combination of towed trailers or a combination of towed trailer and towed motor vehicle.

vehicle weight
means the actual weight of a vehicle whether loaded or empty.

trailer weight
means the weight transmitted to the road by the trailer's axle(s) and is determined with the trailer attached to the towing vehicle.

and


A truck towing a trailer and/or a motor vehicle:
Class "G" if the truck is registered for and the combination weighs 11,000 kgs (24,250 lbs) or less,
Class "D" if the truck is registered for or the combination weighs more than 11,000 kgs, or
Class "A" if the weight of the towed vehicle or the combined weight of the towed vehicles exceeds 4,600 kgs (10,141 lbs).


You said the weight transmitted to the road by the axles of your tailer when attached to the truck is 8800lbs, which is less than 10,141 lbs, therefore you don't need a class A license for that reason.
Your combination of fully loaded truck and trailer weighs less than 24,250 lbs, therefore a G license is all you require.

Might be worth printing out those web pages in case you run into an uninformed officer.

If I am misunderstanding the situation in some way, please let me know, but I think you are just fine with a G license. I just wish I were in the same situation.

One thing I don't think you mentioned is the Registered Gross Weight you have on your truck. This is a weight that you have figure out as the heaviest combined truck and trailer weight you will ever be, you then should give this weight to the License Bureau clerk, who will then tell you how many hundreds of dollars it going to cost you each year to license your truck to haul your trailer around. This weight will be much higher than the GVWR of you truck.

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Old 06-13-2008, 01:32 AM   #8
Wiarton William
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Which then opens the door to the SSC and vehicle inspections required of a vehicle that is used for commercial purposes...ie: over 4500KG... (all pick up trucks are by definition commercial vehicles)..and then you really open the door for being required to HAVE the "A" licence..but then you have to read the sections that define the uses..(CVOR..SSC..Definitions)......most of us are personal use and for our own use vehicles.....I would think that as you told us earlier... to deduct the CCC and the PIN weight from the GVWR of the RV....weigh it all and load intelligently we might be able to stay under the 4600Kg limit....the only RGW purchase needed would be the normal weight of the truck (approx 3000kg) and then the applied weight of the pin onto the TV......If you maximize that weight to 4500Kg you have gone as far as you can without going into the commercial area......The law is always open to interpretations.....and the only thing you can hope for in a questionable situation is that the other guy agrees with you.. thats why every the outcome of every situation is different.....
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Old 06-13-2008, 04:42 AM   #9
OntMont
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All I can say is, take a look at this webpage: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/tru...s/trailers.htm

I still don't think you have any cause for concern if you only use your truck for personal use.
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Old 06-15-2008, 03:30 PM   #10
Wiarton William
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If I get the Class "A" lic...this year I will only have it for 18 months then.......Do I have to retest and remedical every year after age 65?????......Hardly seems worth it....I have spoken to many, many RV drivers.......very few have the "A" Lic.....very few of them will be going for the test......too many things going against RVing in general..what the outcome is going to be is unknown, it doesnt look good....
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Old 06-16-2008, 04:57 AM   #11
Wiarton William
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Good Morning........As result of comments made on another forum.....and comments made during a campground conversation this weekend....I blew my stack and have gone right straight to the top... I will be in possession of the forms from the source later today.........Everything I have said about the calculations regarding whether or not a person needs an "A" class Drivers licence or a "G" class is correct........I have a "G" I DO NOT HAVE TO UPGRADE TO AN "A".. I AM 100% LEGAL.....

RGWR of RV......14105 Lbs
CCC of RV -4000 lbs*
PIN of RV -2100 lbs*
=10105 lbs
*****These weights change with additions of personal possessions..

THE PIN WEIGHT IS DEDUCTED FROM THE RGWR OF THE RV....THAT WEIGHT BELONGS TO THE TV..

When I scaled my RV alone, as as we like it when we travel it weighed 10900 lbs....
When it was scaled attached to the truck,,,RV on scale......TV OFF scale....it weight 8340Lbs.........That is the weight of my RV....IF anyone tries to say different they have no idea what they are talking about....the comments made that the RV...RGWR is the weight that will be used as the actual weight for Driver licence enforcement purposes is balderdash.....IF challenged(and that is NOT likely to happen).....get the set up weighed......The cut off point as far as trailer lengths is concerned is 38 ft(in the Montana Line) under 38ft a "G" licence is probably good... Over 38 ft.. Creative loading or an "A" Lic is required....
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:44 AM   #12
Bill and Ann
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I think that is what John and I have been trying to tell you.
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Old 06-17-2008, 04:06 AM   #13
Wiarton William
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I was pretty confident in the info from you guys until>>>>>>>I met a Campfire Expert who is attached to a prominent RV website...by the time he finished trashing everything from the (Brand New)tires on my truck to the axles on the RV..(a very shortenned list from the actual encounter)..I was overwhelmed...after I got a chance to collect my thoughts I compared notes......I then made the appropriate enquiries....I am now convinced and will not be changing spots again..
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