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Old 08-03-2015, 05:14 PM   #1
Mark N.
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Pics of the electrical short I found

I guess I'll keep it here for now, as it isn't a repair or service issue yet, but it will be once I get it to the shop on the 19th of this month. In the meantime, here are some pictures of what I found hiding under my bed. I always new monsters lived under my bed. This proves it!


 
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Old 08-03-2015, 06:24 PM   #2
rohrmann
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I'm looking at your pictures, and I've seen this kind of damage before. I suspect the monsters under your bed may have been rodents. That damaged area on that green ground wire sure looks like damage caused by rodent teeth.
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Old 08-03-2015, 07:24 PM   #3
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It doesn't appear that there is any way that could rub the insulation that way. For some reason, mice tend to go for plastic. Rubbing doesn't leave chunks of wire like that. I know it is easy to demonize Keystone, but this may not be one of those situations. Good luck with the repair. Glad you caught it.
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Old 08-03-2015, 08:41 PM   #4
Artemus Gordon
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I agree with rodent damage. That said, when did mounting electrical junction to carpeted area become a good idea? The entire thing looks Rube Goldberg to me? Please will a wiser person tell me this is perfectly acceptable? Seems to me a seperation between carpet and wiring should have been made? I can't sleep now!
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Old 08-03-2015, 08:42 PM   #5
Mark N.
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ANOTHER UPDATE: I did a bit more investigative work. I'll show pics of what I found. As the slide is drawn in, the 2 connectors at either end of that damaged flexible wire are drawn closer together, being as the one on the floor is stationary and the other is mounted to the bed-frame. The problem is, the moving one gets jammed into and right over the top of the other one. That is what sheared the cable bare. In fact, on close inspection, there are burn marks on the opposing connector as well as the wood divider it is attached to. In the first picture, you can see the 2 connectors drawing closer. In the next picture, they are just short of making contact. In the last picture, I show how much more travel the slide needs to make to be fully closed AFTER contact between the 2 connectors was made. Man...This is sloppy workmanship, and potentially deadly. I can't even believe someone thought this was an adequate way to allow for slide travel in a 120V.line.
Nope...No rodents to blame here...

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Old 08-04-2015, 01:52 AM   #6
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You are right! I see exactly what happened. Was this wiring in place to supply the outlet in the bedframe or was there another purpose? I do not have outlets on the frame and thinking, no outlet, no wiring, no need to pull the bed apart. Of course also thinking, ugly, it will bother me till I verify.
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Old 08-04-2015, 02:45 AM   #7
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Looks like they just floor mounted the one connector too close to the other(in the open position)causing an extreme bend in the wire cable itself relative to the fixed connection ... leading to your issue. My 3150 or 2980 (can't remember) has a similar connector, but the one end was not screwed to the floor
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Old 08-04-2015, 02:53 AM   #8
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The carpet reminds me of kindling for a fire! Just sayin!
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Old 08-04-2015, 03:32 AM   #9
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I' d like to know why the GFI didn't trip. Also, what did that line power?
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Old 08-04-2015, 04:09 AM   #10
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Two things. Someone should have measured and known how far the bed traveled and made sure to mount the one on the floor in excess of that distance. And the one on the floor should have been turned 90 degrees so that the wire formed a loop away from both of the white connectors. Both are just common sense.

As far as the GFCI, it appears the arcing was between the black wire and the white wire. Both of those have discolored copper. The green wire, while also bare, does not have the discoloration on the copper. Since the GFCI measures the current flow thru the hot wire and compares it to the current flow thru the neutral wire, it would not have detected a problem.

But I would have thought a circuit breaker would have tripped. There are pieces of individual copper strands on the carpet. Looks like as a strand would break, it would arc over to the other wire and then burn open. Maybe the individual strand did not carry enough current to trip the breaker before it burned open.
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Old 08-04-2015, 06:29 AM   #11
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hunts800

I' d like to know why the GFI didn't trip. Also, what did that line power?
I'm not sure of everything else on that line, but that particular flex-wire went to the duplex outlet mounted into the bedframe.
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Old 08-04-2015, 06:32 AM   #12
Mark N.
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by dieselguy

Looks like they just floor mounted the one connector too close to the other(in the open position)causing an extreme bend in the wire cable itself relative to the fixed connection ... leading to your issue. My 3150 or 2980 (can't remember) has a similar connector, but the one end was not screwed to the floor
Exactly! Way too close. The floor mounted connector should have been way back towards the foot of the bed to avoid any contact at all.
It was simple math measurements they didn't accomplish: If there is "X" inches of slide travel, then the 2 connectors need to be at least "X" plus a couple of inches apart. Duh...
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Old 08-04-2015, 11:48 AM   #13
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This morning I had a chance to look under the bed slide in our 2015 3160RL at the wiring job they did for the slide AC power cables. I've attached some pictures below.

The "short" story (pun intended) is that they do not use enough of the flex cable so that they can be separated the amount that the slide moves.

The bottom of the slide has about 1.5 inches of clearance above the connector on the floor. The flex cable is also installed in such a manner that it loops down towards the floor as the slide moves in. I operated the slide multiple times and observed how the cable moves and is not contacted by the slide. There are no signs of wear on the cable anywhere, the slide has probably over 25 in/out cycles on it.

While mine has no problems, others may not be as lucky. They flex cable needs to be another 12" longer so the connector can be mounted closer to the end of the bed, and rotated 90*so the cable loops correctly.

There should most likely be a safety recall on this one by Keystone. At the very least, others should check under their bed slides if they have AC power wiring in the slide. If anyone finds where their cables are abraded, they should contact their dealer or a qualified electrician for repair. I don't think it is safe to wait on Keystone to decide what to do on this one.

Bed slide extended


Slide clearance over connector


Slide retracted, slide bottom moves over flex wire connection



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Old 08-04-2015, 02:05 PM   #14
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First thing no mouse droppings. And looking at the photos it sure looks like the cause was rubbing. Again what I said on the other thread about this issue. Keystone get a tech on a plane and get this resolved. Your liability is growing by the day. JMHO.
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Old 08-04-2015, 02:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by waynemoore

First thing no mouse droppings. And looking at the photos it sure looks like the cause was rubbing. Again what I said on the other thread about this issue. Keystone get a tech on a plane and get this resolved. Your liability is growing by the day. JMHO.
waynemoore...It was for sure not rodents. I found the cause and it is the 2 connectors mounted way too close to each other, resulting in the moving one being driven into and over the stationary one, thereby grinding the wire apart. I'm going to shoot a video of it happening tonight, and I'll post it here. I think. I'll put it on You Tube and put a link here.
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Old 08-04-2015, 07:05 PM   #16
Mark N.
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Here is a video I shot tonight showing exactly how this has happened. Obviously, I've killed the power to this circuit already!
If Keystone doesn't issue a recall over this issue, something is really, seriously wrong with that company!
I've filed a complaint already with NHTSA (National Highway traffic Safety Administration). I can't just assume this is a one shot deal, that happened to my trailer only and still sleep well at night. I caught this simply by a lucky stroke of good fortune, and others might not be so lucky. I feel obligated to do my best to ensure this isn't swept under the bed (sic.)
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:43 AM   #17
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I have owend several Keystone products over the years. The last 2 Montanas I have to say have really shown the lack of quality that shows where they are going. ( same as all companies I must say ). As some would say back in the day you could expect and receive quality and customer service from keystone. I feel that has left. I think that they are in the profit margin and in this day and time all products have went down hill on quality. Very sad as I was always proud to say I had a Montana. Not so much anymore. Quality control has left Keystone and no one cares there. Until a change in their upper management structure and leadership nothing will change. Hope this comes soon. I hope that they step up and make this right with you Mark, you are lucky you didnt need to try that escape bedroom window. I as many are frustrated but I think they know we are for now are not leaving as there are none out there right now that are better. I have mine in the shop at CW as I write this for the same 2x repair on the same item that should have never went wrong. Just installed wrong. Best of luck in your dealings and repairs. Thank goodnes we have the forum and the facebook site to help each other out.
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:06 AM   #18
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Great video.. Thanks for posting.
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:15 AM   #19
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Even though I don't have this issue with my rig I really appreciate all the effort you have expended to investigate and record the problem.First class work all the way around.Video really nailed the issue. Jim
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Old 09-12-2015, 09:34 AM   #20
maximo
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After looking at the pictures of the electrical under the bed the wife and I went out to check under the bed of our Montana.

MONTANA BIG SKY 3580RL mfg date 3-04-2011

Raised up the King Size mattress that sets on a sheet of plywood and there is another sheet of plywood screwed to the frame directly under the mattress. There is approximately 6 inches of space between the mattress plywood and the sheet screwed to the frame. You can not see the carpet on the floor. On the outside of the bed frame right next to the carpeted floor there is a electrical outlet but you can not see how it is wired because of the second sheet of plywood on the bed frame.
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