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Old 07-31-2007, 07:08 AM   #1
bncinwv
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Same old generator questions

Fellow Mocers,
First of all I apologize for beating what is probably a dead horse for all but I am in the initial investigative stages of generator selection. 3400 is complete with Gen set prep so I will be listening intently to your input. Standard decision, Gas vs Propane, Honda vs Onan. 2000 vs 3000. My understanding is the propane units suck the tanks dry at any kind of load in a couple days or less (please confirm or deny from actual experience). I have tried to do the calculations but figure what the heck, I have MOCers who already know the answers. To run AC, washer (DW will insist), and TV (DD's will insist) what exactly is required. 15,000 BTU vs 13,500 BTU also in consideration (i.e., run front ac vs back ac). Is there such a mechanism as an auto-switch that would start the 3000's automatically at a power outage, I seem to recollect that this is possible for the Onan's. I am not overly concerned about the weight differences between 2000 and 3000. I am strongly leaning towards the 3000 because if I understand correctly a 3000 parallel setup will actually approach 50 amps and I can use it at stick house in case of power outage. Again, apologies offered but this will be a major investment so I need input. Thanks in advance for offering you expertise and experiences.
Bingo
 
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Old 07-31-2007, 08:02 AM   #2
bsmeaton
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Bingo -

What you don't mention is what you actually intend to use the generator for - ??

Our LP Onan is installed for roadside convenience and occasional boondocking. However, I will consume all propane in the tanks in about 13 hrs or less depending on what other appliances are using propane. Our Onan has the benefit of providing 50A of instant service by the push of a button on my key fob, which allows me to pre-start the air conditioning before pulling into a campground, cook a meal in the microwave, watch a TV program, or even take a nice nap in the rest stop with the AC on. Anything longer term such as an overnighter would pretty much run me empty. However, each time I run the generator, I am recharging my batteries so I can extend a low-voltage boondock into a week or so if my tanks can hold it.

I have always had stationary generators in the RVs, therefore I would not have an expert opinion on the little gassers, but I assume they take a little to set up, require a remote location to operate, and last much longer for the same amount of fuel.

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Old 07-31-2007, 08:20 AM   #3
bncinwv
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Thanks Brad, I actually do not have any immediate plans for what I actually intend to use it for. You confirmed my thoughts about the LP anyway, but I will not discount actually having both types. In our part of the country (much like yours) winter storms have been known to cause multiple day power outages, so a gas model would be invaluable for the house. I believe at some point (post-retirement) that the use would primarily be for boondocking with some semblance of retained civilized features. I think that is why I am leaning towards the gasoline units. At that point in time I envision the gens in some sort of ventilated lock box in the truck bed along with the fuel. That is why I am strongly considering the Honda 3000 with an option of adding another in a year or two with the parallel kit. Got to get all this stuff bought while the finances are available!! I trust some Honda owners will provide their input also.
Bingo
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Old 07-31-2007, 01:27 PM   #4
noneck
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Bingo, We have the Kipor 3000Ti for the reasons posted. Used while boondocking full week running multiple sewing machines, AC, Microwave, TV's, charging batteries and had a next door tenter walk by and comment; "Didn't know you had a generator running, wow, that's quiet!". Used about 6 gal of fuel. Cost less than Honda with same performance. Keep it near by for when stick house requires generator power...so far local power fails are zero.
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Old 07-31-2007, 05:43 PM   #5
dsprik
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by noneck

Bingo, We have the Kipor 3000Ti for the reasons posted. Used while boondocking full week running multiple sewing machines, AC, Microwave, TV's, charging batteries and had a next door tenter walk by and comment; "Didn't know you had a generator running, wow, that's quiet!". Used about 6 gal of fuel. Cost less than Honda with same performance. Keep it near by for when stick house requires generator power...so far local power fails are zero.
Bingo, I am going to have to DITTO noneck's entire post on the Kipor 3000. We absolutely love ours. It has saved our bacon on more than one occasion this past year, and if you ever spend the night in a Walmart or Cracker Barrel, you will be amazed at how quiet it is.
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Old 07-31-2007, 06:04 PM   #6
MAMalody
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Question: I am looking at getting two Honda 2000 with the parallel hookup. The run from my power input into the 5er is at the rear of the trailer and the bed of my TV is about 45' away and if the cord is on the ground that is a 50-55' cord. Would that be a problem? Also, is there an exhaust issue to be concerned with because my bed would be above and slightly behind the generators?
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Old 07-31-2007, 06:21 PM   #7
dsprik
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Mike, I carry my Kipor 3000ti in the bed of my pickup, up against the passenger side of the extended cab (key and elect cord almost up against the curbside bed), with the exhaust end running towards the drivers side, where it has plenty of room to exhaust.

When I stop for the night where I am going to use my gen, I always unhook (usually go out to eat) and pull around to the back of the 3400, right next to the electrical plug in, for the night. I run that Kipor right where it is and it is EXTREMELY quiet - especially down inside the bed of the truck. Since the gen is on the opposite end of the bedroom while running all night (1-2 gals of gas is all we use), we get neither noise nor exhaust fumes...
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Old 07-31-2007, 08:25 PM   #8
Imp
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How do you secure the generators in the bed of your truck?
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Old 07-31-2007, 09:51 PM   #9
JH Sechelt
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We have a Honda EM3000CC.



Don't use it much, but is nice to have one. Nice thing about this model is that it only weighs 68 lbs. Runs AC and everything else in our trailer. Easy to move around and store it up in the front compartment by the batteries.

J&D
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:14 AM   #10
bncinwv
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Okay now I have been convinced to look hard at the Kipor, therefore more questions are needed!! Does the Kipor have a 30 amp connection, which leads to the next question (generator newbie!!!!). I asume that when using the generators we use a 50-30 amp adaptor and plug it all directly into the receptacle on the Monty?? Also is there an electric start on the Kipor?? Have you had any service issues and where is services avaialble?? I am researching all that I can on this model as I go. Noneck, can you confirm what I possibly mis-read, this generator will run AC and other equipment (TV or Splendide washer) at the same time or separately???? Thanks for the great input!!
Bingo
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:24 AM   #11
dsprik
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Imp, on my 2002 GMC 2500HD ext cab long bed, I have a small metal loop built into the bed, on the side walls, near the floor of the bed, just behind the cab on both sides. I bought a cable lock and looped it through this metal loop, securing it to the bed, and around the handle of the Kipor. I also have enough length to loop it through my FULL 5 gal plastic gas can that rides next to it (I also keep the Kipor's 3 1/2 gal tank full at all times. Got caught once and that was WAY more than one time too many). Works great - but I do have a long bed. Not sure if there is enough room on a shortbed, but maybe.


Yes, there is a 30 amp receptacle on the Kipor - just plug your 50-30 adapter directly in to the Kipor.

[i][/i}
Yes, the Kipor has an electric start. No service issues whatesoever. Originally, when the Kipor brand first came out, it was hard to find service for them. Even though they are a Honda clone, Honda dealers refused to work on them. That has now changed, I understand, and most gen and small engine places will service them now.


I can run my main 15K A/C and a few minor appliances on my 3000. Since it has a 30 outlet, I would assume that Kipor believes that you should be able to run off of it just like you you a CG 30 amp service. Probably true, but if you get to close to the full 30 amp usage, I believe it will overload the gen and go to it's automatic shutdown. I have not tried running my Ariston w/d on gen, as anytime we run these, we need to have full hookups anyway. It will run my 32" Sharp Aquos w/ the A/C just fine - or my electric fireplace.

A full load on the 3000ti (A/C plus TV and normal light usage) will run the 3 1/2 gal gas tank out in 9 hrs - as per Kipor. During a storm caused power outage in the CG we were in last summer, with heat index at 115 degrees, we ran our main A/C wide open on the gen to survive. The Kipor was running over 3/4 load (A/C was trying to ice up). The electric came on in 4 hrs. I checked the gas tank and I had used just less than 1/2 tank, so Kipor's claim of using a full tank in 9 hrs at full load seems justified.

No A/C, overnight stays (w/ TV usage) have run 15 hrs straight and only uses about 2/3 of the tank in that time. I think that is great.

A few notes... I believe someone mentioned to me that you need a "sine wave syncronized"? gen to run your more sensitive items - TV, computers, etc. Also, when you start your gen, do not have anything plugged into it. Get it running first, THEN plug in your 30 amp plug and then go in and start turning on appliances (same procedure one should use plugging into any CG power supply).

When "dry camping" on your gen, don't forget to switch your hot water heater, and fridge over to gas. HW heater ESPECIALLY will really rev up your gen when it cycles on. Remember, the HW heater cycles even if you don't use any hot water - eventually cools in the tank below the set point. The 3000ti will handle this, just uses a lot more gas. Propane may be cheaper usage.

Another note. Don't drive around towns/cities (as a daily driver) with your gen uncovered in the back of your pickup as a general habit (I have a Truxedo cover). There have been cases of gens stolen out of the back of pickups in Walmart, etc parking lots.

I cable lock my 3000ti to the back scissors jack on the side of the 3400 under the 50 amp plug when staying more than 2 days anywhere. I also cable lock my full gas can next to it... At current gas prices, these will begin to be a target.

Hope some of this is helpful. Others have more experience than me with these gens. They may be able to clarify/correct some of the above statements...

~On Edit: The Kipor 3000ti weighs 132# dry. W/ 3.5 gals of gas (@ 7ppg) that equals 156#. Wife and I can heft it in the back of the pickup (I have done it by myself). Getting it over the hitch to the front of the bed is a chore, but can be done carefully and slowly - probably don't want to do this exercise every day, though...
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:55 AM   #12
bncinwv
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Thanks again, Dave, I am now convinced that I will purchase a Kipor, now the only decision is the 3000 or the 6000 (209 # dry - WHEW). I would probably install some kind of a steel lock box for the bed of the truck that I could bolt or chain in for the unit to be in permanently (then I could just pull into the yard at the house if I need it for power outages). Thank goodness for a big truck that can handle this!!!! With regards to your W/D, I did think about that and thought that I could leave a tote attached to the drain. 30-40 gals or so should allow for 3-4 loads. Of course then, I will need a ramp and a come-along to get the thing into the back of the TV until we get to a dump ((30-40)*7.5 = 225-300#). There is no way I can go anywhere without DW using the washer - not going to happen (I will keep trying to convince her otherwise though). Her peeve is hauling back any amount of dirty clothes. Thanks again for great info!!
Bingo
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:08 AM   #13
bsmeaton
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Bingo,

Just remember when hooking up to the house that you need some type of automatic or manual transfer switch to isolate the city power. If the city power unexpectedly returns to service with your generator running it will fry that little Kippor after it runs it like a drill motor for a while.

Brad
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:16 AM   #14
dsprik
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Bingo, I did run my Ariston stackable washer off of my internal tank system. This can work. As you know you will need about 40 gals of fresh water for a couple loads. We ran out of water, underestimating the amount the washer uses - no wonder CGs charge extra for RVs with w/d's. I believe the Kipor 3000 will easily handle the electric duties of the Aristons.

Bingo, I really don't know if the 6000 would really be worth the extra cost/weight for what you need out of it, compared to the 3000. At least the 3000 is semi-portable - just in case. And you still have to get it closer to the rig's electric plug than parked at the nose (of my 3400, anyway) that some camping situations would restrict you to. That is just my opinion, though...

And the 3000 should still work for your house for the rare emergency purpose, taking into consideration Brad's precautions.
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:16 AM   #15
bncinwv
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Good info Brad, knew that but there are others I am sure that don't.
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:23 AM   #16
bncinwv
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Dave,
The more you post, the more I ponder. I suspect you are correct about the 3000 - prices I am seeing are in the 1200-1300 range (is that correct or are there sale prices I need to look for?) Never even thought about the water usage, had in mind 7-8 gals per load, but even at that minimum (now I notice Ariston says 7.5-18 gals per load) if you were dry camping, I am sure that I (we) wouldn't want to waste it on clothes. Perhaps I can get someone to post that the best solution is a washboard (remember them??)or a creek with rocks to rub together and a clothesline. Then I can tell DW that is what the most informed members of the MOC suggest!!!!!!
Bingo
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:36 AM   #17
bsmeaton
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hahahaha - I'm having visions of a batch of barefoot young ladies in nightgowns washing clothes on the rocks in a river singing songs! (must have seen that in a movie).

Dave, how did you hold the water from the wash machine? In a separate tank or did you let it backfeed into your main tanks?

Bingo - The Ariston will use about 7.5 gal if you shut off all of the additional options for the cycles and watch where you set the selector for the cycle. Extra rinse in itself will add another 7.5 gal to the load.
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:56 AM   #18
Bill and Lisa
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We own a Kipor 3000TI as well and have a couple of additional tidbits to add/confirm

- electric start is great. works well. ONly maint issue we ever had was the electric start stopped working but it started by hand no problem (bolt holding ground to battery had vibrated loose and the cable lost contact - 3 min fix)

- we run a chain through the handle and through various parts of the hitch. I have a short be AND a tool box installed so my gennie rides between the tail gate and the hitch. I can (and have) bumped the gennie with the kingpin when hooking up or unhooking but that is the only time it is a problem and you just need to be careful.

- 30 Amp plug on mine is a twist lock connector so I had to buy an adapter to plug in a standard 30A RV plug.

- smart throttle feature helps conserve fuel. Runs gennie at the rpm needed for the load. ramps up speed (consumption) as load increases.

- Can not run the 1/2 time oven and AC at the same time and agree with Dave that you need to put fridge and HW Heater on propane. Haven't done the HW Heater yet so the following problem may be solved if I remove the HW Heater load.

- Have had a problem both smart throttle and full throttle with power fluctuation when the AC kicks in. Lights will flicker and if we are watching a DVD the power drop is enough to "reset" the disk.
Did shift fridge to propane but still experienced the problem. will try with HW heater also on propane. Another possible solution just occurred to me also in that I have been running the AC in "AUTO". I may not have as drastic of a load change if I run the AC in "HIGH" as the fan will always be running and just the compressor would cycle in and out vice the whole unit turing on and off.

- unit is very quiet especially under light load. We also either leave in truck bed and park truck at the rear of the unit or chain the gennie to the rear stabilizers. When unit is in the truck bed (and not being used) I cover it with an outdoor grill cover that works well.

Bill
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Old 08-01-2007, 07:50 AM   #19
bncinwv
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Just when I thought I had it all figured out I run across this at a Kipor dealer:

http://www.ohiokipor.com/inc/sdetail/1086

Disadvantage is that it doesn't have electric start. Decisions, decisions!! Any thoughts????

Bingo
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Old 08-01-2007, 08:04 AM   #20
Bill and Lisa
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Sounds good, now we just need a guinea pig to test it out...........Let us know what you think!

Bill
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