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Old 07-22-2007, 02:13 PM   #1
SlickWillie
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Heated underbelly

Anyone ever put some sort of valve to shut off the heat to the underbelly. I don't plan on any freezing nights, and don't see any reason to heat the plumbing when I want a little heat on cool mornings. Looks to me like it would save a lot of propane by closing that duct off. Whatcha think? Maybe not enough air flow for the heater?
 
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Old 07-22-2007, 03:12 PM   #2
ols1932
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I solved my problem by having a portable catalytic heater installed by Camping World. They plumbed it from the existing propane line to a point near the floor through the kitchen cabinet, under the sink. Then installed quick disconnect connectors to a short flexible propane line to the catalytic heater. When this is turned on, it quickly removes the chill. I did this in 2002. Then in December '06 I purchased a 20,000 BTU Blue Flame heater and now heat with it. At night I run the furnace on about 55 °F so that if it is freezing outside, at least the underbelly will have enough heat to keep things from freezing. I've been in 5 °F weather and all was well. The Blue Flame heater allows me to heat then entire rig!

Orv
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Old 07-22-2007, 04:46 PM   #3
Charlie
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Walk out side some time when the heater is running and feel the heat loss on the exhaust. What small amount goes into the under belly will not make a lot of difference on propane savings. The heater design allows for this and I think restricting air volume will have a negative effect on the heater's plenum and cause premature burnout.
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Old 07-23-2007, 02:42 PM   #4
sreigle
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I don't know. The duct into the belly is a two-inch pipe. I've felt it when it's pumping in heat and there's a lot of heat going into the belly. I had never given any thought to closing off that pipe as we do some freezing weather but it's an interesting idea.

I'd suggest if you close it off you do it in a way that can be quickly reversed to reopen the pipe, just in case the weather surprises you. Or for the next owner, who might do freezing weather.

Interesting idea.
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:16 PM   #5
SlickWillie
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sreigle

I don't know. The duct into the belly is a two-inch pipe. I've felt it when it's pumping in heat and there's a lot of heat going into the belly. I had never given any thought to closing off that pipe as we do some freezing weather but it's an interesting idea.

I'd suggest if you close it off you do it in a way that can be quickly reversed to reopen the pipe, just in case the weather surprises you. Or for the next owner, who might do freezing weather.

Interesting idea.
Our Mountaineer has at least a 6" duct running down to the belly. I was shocked when I saw that. That is pretty much the same size in sq. inches as the upper heating duct. I didn't measure it, but I would guess 2" X 12". Perhaps the underside of the Mountaineer is not sealed as good as the Montana. We took the RV to the dealer today, so it'll be a few days before I can research this further.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:28 PM   #6
Ozz
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I would leave it alone.
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Old 07-25-2007, 05:58 AM   #7
Bill and Lisa
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There may be several different arrangements here based upon floor plan.

I have a 07, 3000RK and here is how my unit is set up. My heater is located under the shower on the curb side of the unit between the door and the basement. The space it is in runs the width of the trailer passing under the stairs and the bathroom. There is a piece of shielding inplace the hides the back of the convience center on the street side but it is not air proof. The vents under the step also open to this space and the "main" heating to the underbelly/basement area is through a 4" diameter vent on the removable panel on the rear wall of the basement. (this vent is just like the A/C vents in the cieling. There is NO Hose or venting attached/feeding this vent. Positive pressure in the space is the only thing that forces heat into the basement. I have the rear kitchen so on the main heating duct feeding the rear of the unit there is a 3" by 6" opening in the duct through which the water lines to the rear of the unit are run. This opening is what provides the heat and positive pressure into the heater space and from there to the remaining waterlines and basement area. There are two auxillery supplies leading off from the heater. One goes to the vent in the throne room and the other to the vent in the bedroom.

Now to address the question asked. In my setup blocking the vent to the basement could be accomplished with a piece of cardboard. It would have NO effect on the airflow around the furnace since the flow only goes out and blocking the vent would only increase the flow out from under the steps (which is really the air intake source) and around the flashing seperating the water lines from the basement. In fact thinking about the air intake under the steps it would be hard to imagine ever being to build up a positive pressure in that space. Without a line feeding the vent to the basement I question how much if any heat will make it up to the basement. I will have to see if I actually get flow out of that vent when the heater is on. I may need to get some thremal tape and reduce the opening through which to water hoses enter the duct work to maximize the flow into the duct. Otherwise it seems to me there will be a nice recirculation of the air in the furnace space but not alot of flow into the unit.

Like others I have been using electric heaters as my main heating source. I do set the furnace on a low setting to act as a back up in the event the electrics can't handle the cold (or I lose power) but was figuring I might have to intentionally run the furnace from time to time if it gets too cold just to ensure heat gets up to the underbelly and basement areas.

Orv, with your furnace set at 55 and your Blue Flame heating the whole unit does your furnace ever come on? If not, have you had a problem with things freezing or is there enough circulation to spread the Blue Flame heat to the basement and underbelly? Maybe rigging a second thermostat in the basement and wiring it into the 2nd controller position would ensure Automatic periodic running of the heater to ensure the underbelly stayed warm?

Hmmmmmmmm, have to think on this one some more. Any thoughts?

Bill
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Old 07-25-2007, 06:41 AM   #8
Emmel
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Orv, I was wondering like Bill if your furnace ran when using the other heater. In our stick house we use a gas fireplace and when it runs the furnace will not since the gas fireplace heats up the thermostat higher than the setting.
As for cutting off the heat to the basement, you could probably do that, but the constant flow has to go somewhere. I really don't think it uses that much more propane.
Again, I agree with Ozz, let it be.
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Old 07-25-2007, 07:54 AM   #9
Ozz
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What I did to compensate for not running the propane furnace very much, is wire my furnace fan to an on and off switch, when it's around freezing, I run the fan on 'On', this circulates warm air in the under belly.
I head South for the winter, so this is seldom an issue, however if I were in real Winter conditions, I would run the furnace more than the electric heaters to temper the underbelly air.
It's not smart to mess with mother nature, and her icy hands.......
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Old 07-25-2007, 09:06 AM   #10
SlickWillie
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OK, I think I'll have the re-lick this cat when I get the egg off my face. I'm thinking what I was looking at was the duct between the upper and lower floor duct work. Like I said, the RV is in the shop at this time, so I'll look when it gets back home. I had the panel in the basement storage compartment off looking for the black tank leak, and just saw that flex duct and immediately thought of that going to the belly area. Oh well, not the first time I thought wrong.
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Old 07-25-2007, 10:48 AM   #11
Ozz
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That's OK will, we all drift off at times, it did generate ideas, and that's always good.
Ozz
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Old 07-25-2007, 05:15 PM   #12
ols1932
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Bill and Lisa


Orv, with your furnace set at 55 and your Blue Flame heating the whole unit does your furnace ever come on?
Bill
At night I don't run the Blue Flame heater for that very reason. I want the furnace to kick on. If I was to run the BF heater, the furnace would never kick on and then I could have a freeze-up problem.

Orv
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:04 AM   #13
sreigle
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We also supplement in the coach with electric heaters. We find when the temperatures are in the freezing to upper twenties (F) that the heater may keep the furnace from running very much. But the tanks and lines are in no danger of freezing unless it is 27 or below for 4 hours or more. At least those inside the rig.

When temperatures are mid twenties and below the furnace runs enough to keep things from freezing in the belly, even with the other heaters running. However, we do not have the electric heaters pointing directly at the thermostat vicinity.

When in hard freeze temperatures, at night we will either turn off the electric unless the outside temperature is in the mid teens or lower. Then we'll put the electric heater on low. The furnace does not have to run a lot to keep things from frezing in the belly. But it does have to run some.

We've survived to five below zero, twice, and a couple of times with at least a week where the highs never got above 13 or so.

On Montanas with low point drains hanging below the belly, those will freeze in the low twenties. Some Montanas have the drains below the belly but the actual valve is in the basement storage area. Those shouldn't freeze if the furnace runs occasionally.
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Old 07-26-2007, 01:57 PM   #14
SlickWillie
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sreigle

On Montanas with low point drains hanging below the belly, those will freeze in the low twenties. Some Montanas have the drains below the belly but the actual valve is in the basement storage area. Those shouldn't freeze if the furnace runs occasionally.
I took a couple of the molded faucet freeze protectors with the rubber bands and strapped on the low point drains last winter. They worked real well.
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