Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > MOC Technical Forums > Maintenance
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-13-2009, 12:40 PM   #1
raja402
Established Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: monument
Posts: 17
M.O.C. #4716
Changing axles and springs

I have a 2005 3755rl, which the weight on the tag says 14,040 lbs. After ruining several tires due to excessive wear on inside, i looked at the axle tag and they were only 6500 lb rating. Why would keystone put light axles under something that was overweight for them from the get-go. I am thinking of going to Dexter 8000 lb axles, but do i need to upgrade the springs as well? I do not know the rating on them, but would assume they are undersized as well. I also noticed the rear axle looks like it lost it's camber.
i purchased the 5vr used and noticed it had brand new tires all the way around which I thought odd, since they pulled it from Arizona to Oregon shortly before I bought it. I have since gone through 4 tires in very short trips, not even a thousand miles to my guessing. I think it may have had some previous damage or overloaded, or both.
So if anyone can answer my axle/spring question I would appreciate it. Thank you in advance for your help. Happy trails, see you on the road somewhere.
 
raja402 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2009, 12:42 PM   #2
raja402
Established Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: monument
Posts: 17
M.O.C. #4716
I,m sorry, my 5vr is a 3575RL, not a 3755rl as I just posted. Thanks.
raja402 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2009, 01:33 PM   #3
8.1al
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Benson
Posts: 3,121
M.O.C. #1658
Raja,
If your axles are rated at 6500 lbs. then you are in good shape. If your rig weighs 14,000, 20-25% of that will be on the pin so you are left with 11,200-10,500 on the axles. However it does sound like you need to have the alignment of the axles checked. We have a 2004 3575 and ours were out of alignment right from the beginning.
8.1al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2009, 01:44 PM   #4
raja402
Established Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: monument
Posts: 17
M.O.C. #4716
Thanks for your reply 8.1al. I am curious as to how they would perform an alignment when there appears to be nothing to adjust like on a vehicle. I guess anything is possible, I will have to check around. On the weight thing, it still seems awfully close to being undersized if one added water, supplies, etc. and all the DW 'stuff'. Thanks again.
raja402 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2009, 01:57 PM   #5
HamRad
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 5,316
M.O.C. #15
Raja402,

They adjust the axles by bending them. You are correct there is nothing to adjust. And I agree with Charlie; it sounds like you need them adjusted.

HamRad
HamRad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2009, 03:30 PM   #6
exav8tr
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Casa Grande
Posts: 5,369
M.O.C. #6333
Raja, before you change out Axles and springs, you might want to look at the MorRyde Independent Suspension with never lube hubs and disc brakes as I did. Getting a great ride for sure. I did it for longevity, not cheap but a guys gotta do what a guys gotta do.
exav8tr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2009, 05:30 PM   #7
Art-n-Marge
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Murrieta
Posts: 5,816
M.O.C. #9257
Send a message via MSN to Art-n-Marge Send a message via Yahoo to Art-n-Marge
Raja402... first thing to do is get the axles check!!! There is nothing wrong with the 6500 lb axles on your RV. the combined weight would be 13,000 lbs at the wheels leaving 1,000 lbs for the pin and your pin is probably over 2000 lbs if you are completely loaded at 14040. You are good to go, but it sure sounds like the axles need adjusting. This is a common enough problem. This can occur even with brand new rigs out the door. I'm sorry you didn't consult the forum sooner and could have been warned about this before losing two sets of tires.

Then to improve the ride and the abuse, look into "wet shackle" suspension, mor-ryde (or similar suspension), then other ride improvements like an air ride for your pin.
Art-n-Marge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2009, 12:10 AM   #8
ols1932
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 4,876
M.O.C. #1944
As exav8tr said, if you're going to change axles, look into MOR/ryde's Individual Suspension axles. I have them and have been happy we had the original axles and springs changed out. As for expense, we paid $1800 (didn't get the Nev-r-lubes or disc brakes) back in 2003. So you can determine whether or not the difference in cost wouold be acceptable to you.

Orv
ols1932 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2009, 06:07 AM   #9
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
As noted, the 6500 lb axles meet the ratings of the rig since your pinweight gets the rest of the weight.

However, we also had problems with tire wear, similar to what you are seeing. We went to the Dexter 7000 lb axles. Our originals were 6,000 lb each.

We had the option of changing just the axle and reusing the 6,000 lb springs and/or the axle tube (the outer tube). We chose to go whole hog. Why increase axle capacity and have the suspension be a weak point? I'm not sure how that would affect the tires.

We went with the 7k axles, the heavy tubes (had a choice of light or heavy tubes) and the 7k springs. We also at the same time had them install the Dexter wet bolt shackles. There was no labor charge for that since the shackles had to be removed to replace the springs, anyhow. To top it off, the new Dexter axle has self adjusting brakes that self adjust both in moving forward and backward. No more manual adjustments! We had ours done by MO Trailers in Goshen, IN. I was very impressed with them and their work. Total cost was $1495.46.

This work was done July 28, 2008. We dropped off the trailer in the morning and picked it up right after lunch. Since the install, we have towed the rig from Goshen, IN to NJ, to Boston, eastern NY, back to Kansas City, to San Antonio, back to Kansas City, to Branson, MO, back to KC. And the tires show no abnormal wear at all. I'm very pleased with the difference. It wouldn't take very many tire replacements for the axle switch to pay for itself.

FYI, our Montana's actual CAT scale weight as towed is 14,620. I would think the 7k axles would work for you just fine. But, of course, you can go to the 8k axles if you feel 7k is not enough.
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2009, 06:33 AM   #10
Mrs. CountryGuy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: _
Posts: 5,238
M.O.C. #6337
raja402

This axle situation can be inspected by a QUALIFIED big rig truck axle place.

Hint, this has been discussed here at the MOC several times, you could try the search engine and see if it pops up some other threads.

Good luck in your choice, new axles, MOR Ryde solution or the ole bend the axles back to correct camber solution.
Mrs. CountryGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2009, 04:22 PM   #11
Carl n Susan
Site Team
 
Carl n Susan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Carmichael - CA
Posts: 7,324
M.O.C. #4831
As others have stated, the axles don't carry all 14K lbs., the pin takes a lot of it (> 2K)). I wasn't aware that Dexter had (and Montana used) a 6500 lb. axle, particularly in 2005. I thought they were 5200 or 6000. The 7000 lb. (unless in Canada) rated axles didn't arrive until 2008/2009.

Regardless, if you decide to change axles, consider just upgrading the tubes only (i.e. no springs). At the recent Spring rally, Charles Wade from Keystone/Montana made the point that there is actually some engineering that goes into the manufacture of a trailer. Concepts like positioning the axles to ensure the correct pin weight and matching the springs to the projected weight carried are considered when selecting components. Using 7K springs for an under 6K load may significantly affect the ride inside the trailer. You might not notice, but the contents will.

Before you do anything, I encourage you to weigh the trailer and determine what you are actually carrying.

P.S. It is a safe bet you have one or more bent axles. While they can be "straightened" (actually curved), many axle people believe they will likely bend again. Their recommendation to replace the axle tubes with the heaviest ones you can get.

The choices (and $$$ to implement) are yours.
__________________
Carl (n Susan)
There is more to life than fuel mileage.
2012 Montana 3700RL Big Sky Package towed by a 2015 Ford F350 6.7L PSD 4WD CC LWB

Carl n Susan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2009, 06:30 PM   #12
tbhd
Montana Master
 
tbhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Macomb Twp
Posts: 1,451
M.O.C. #2221

Do you know the manufacture of your axles? If they are the Alko-Kober axles they may be eligible for replacement through a dealer and Alko. They had some defective ones that got out. They replaced ours two years ago. All we paid for was the labor to install them. The unfortunate situation was that the replacements bent also. So we went with the Mor-Ryde IS system. Alko woudn't replace the second set. We have six lug wheels and to go with anything heavier we would have to replace all the wheels also. I'm not well versed on axle specs but from what I read and was told that the only difference between a 6000 pound axle and a 7000 pound axle was the size of the magnet in the brake drum and maybe the width of the brake drum. Not sure on that though. Good luck with your problem and hope this helps.
tbhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 06:13 AM   #13
raja402
Established Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: monument
Posts: 17
M.O.C. #4716
Thanks to all who replied on my axle question. I'm unsure which way to go but I do know I have a problem. To Carl and Susan, the axles I have are Alko 6500 lb. And to tbhd, what year was your 5th wheel? And how did you go about convincing Alko to warrent them? Was your rig still under warranty? I have a seven year extended on mine and will try to see if this might be covered. I haven't read the fine print and they usually have very fine print. Once again, thanks to all who have replied.
raja402 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 09:18 AM   #14
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
Butch has a good point about thinking through whether to go with the heavier springs or keep the existing ones. In our case, weight on the two axles is 11,760, which I feel is too close to the 12,000 pound rating so we went with the heavier ones. If your actual weight allows, keeping the same springs will save some money.
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2009, 05:27 PM   #15
tbhd2
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Macomb
Posts: 293
M.O.C. #5709
raja402

Our 3670 is an 04. It was not under the manufacturers warranty at the time of the first axle replacement. It was a program either by Keystone and or Alko. Some members even got them installed free and tires replaced. We also have a service contract and they worked with us to replace the second set of axles with the Mor-Ryde IS system so it didn't cost us much to get it done. We just got an estimate to replace both axles from a repair shop. Now we can only hope the Mor-Ryde system lives up to it's claims. We just got tired of always having suspension problems and wearing out tires. Of course the down side to this is they are located in Elkhart In. I don't know if the have any other fascilities that install their systems. Come to the fall rally and have it done then.
tbhd2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2009, 10:45 AM   #16
raja402
Established Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: monument
Posts: 17
M.O.C. #4716
Thanks again to all who replied. I got an e-mail from Interstate Rv whom we have our extended warranty with. They said axles were covered and we would have to take the Monty in and have the repair place verify need and the need for alignment, So now to find a place to have it done!!!! i'm three hours from anywhere. But things are sounding better. Thanks again.
raja402 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2009, 11:49 AM   #17
Art-n-Marge
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Murrieta
Posts: 5,816
M.O.C. #9257
Send a message via MSN to Art-n-Marge Send a message via Yahoo to Art-n-Marge
That's great news! let us know how it goes!
Art-n-Marge is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
leaf springs and axles thegumbos Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 7 10-14-2016 08:11 AM
axles simonne Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 6 08-09-2011 01:36 PM
axles sabeaulieu Repairs & Service 17 07-04-2011 05:19 AM
bad axles? crazy bout campin Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 4 04-27-2008 11:33 PM
Axles on Big Sky judyuk General Discussions about our Montanas 1 06-03-2007 12:22 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.