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Old 12-24-2020, 09:19 AM   #21
Daryles
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Originally Posted by Lazy Ike View Post
Hi, looking at your picture isn't the 80amp in series with the 50amp? It looks like the 50amp is ahead of the 80 amp and would trip prior to the 80 seeing an overload.
Trace it. From the battery to the first breaker LEFT post. The wiring on the right post is on the other side. Now follow the short jumper to the second breaker RIGHT post. The hydraulic system wire is attached to the same post. Everything on the LEFT post of this breaker (goes to the converter) is on the other side of the breaker.
So electrically speaking, all the breakers are in parallel.
 
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Old 12-24-2020, 11:36 AM   #22
TCmontana
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I not an electrician, however going from this thread is this something that anyone can do, you is it a diy project? When we purchased out unit brand new last season within 7 days the hydraulic pump needed replaced. That was a warranty replacement, but the dealer never mentioned anything about this breaker or that a change would work better. Thanks for all the advice.
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Old 12-24-2020, 11:45 AM   #23
Lazy Ike
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Trace it. From the battery to the first breaker LEFT post. The wiring on the right post is on the other side. Now follow the short jumper to the second breaker RIGHT post. The hydraulic system wire is attached to the same post. Everything on the LEFT post of this breaker (goes to the converter) is on the other side of the breaker.
So electrically speaking, all the breakers are in parallel.
OK, I see it. The circuit to the pump is on the line side (right side of the breaker) and the load is on the left. You cut the new breaker into the line side. I need to do this and want to make sure I get it right. My levelers stop and start in cold weather. I also had the front legs completely bleed off last night I assume due to it getting down to 15 degrees. Have you had that issue?
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Old 12-24-2020, 03:51 PM   #24
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You just as well put in a solid piece of wire in place of the 50 amp breaker. If you do not upgrade the wire to something like 4 AWG, the 80 amp will overload the 10 AWG wire and burn it up and maybe your trailer, too.

I can't believe there are electricians chiming in here and not questioning the use of an 80 amp CB on a circuit that is clearly not designed for 80 amps.
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Old 12-24-2020, 05:37 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by beekeeper.va View Post
You just as well put in a solid piece of wire in place of the 50 amp breaker. If you do not upgrade the wire to something like 4 AWG, the 80 amp will overload the 10 AWG wire and burn it up and maybe your trailer, too.

I can't believe there are electricians chiming in here and not questioning the use of an 80 amp CB on a circuit that is clearly not designed for 80 amps.
We are talking about less than 4 feet of wire at 12volts.... 10 gauge wire should be able to handle 85 amps. longer wire less amps. 80amps should blow the CB before toasting the wire. But yeah, a larger wire would be better. Guess the question is the gauge of the existing wire. Full disclosure, I am not an electrician, don't play one on TV either.
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Old 12-24-2020, 06:29 PM   #26
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If it was just the pump that failed, the motor and the breaker will have nothing to do with the failure. If the motor failed, even with the smaller breaker, it is likely just a defective motor, and a larger breaker would have tripped just like the smaller one would. Whether this is a DIY project to replace the breaker depends on the individual and what his/her capabilities are. I replaced our breaker, but as a retired electric lineman, this is not an issue for me.
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Old 12-24-2020, 06:41 PM   #27
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You just as well put in a solid piece of wire in place of the 50 amp breaker. If you do not upgrade the wire to something like 4 AWG, the 80 amp will overload the 10 AWG wire and burn it up and maybe your trailer, too.

I can't believe there are electricians chiming in here and not questioning the use of an 80 amp CB on a circuit that is clearly not designed for 80 amps.

All those cables in these newer rigs are #4 AWG copper, and the upgrade to the 80 amp breaker is at the direction of Lippert who makes the system, so there is not a need to question whether the upgrade is safe. On page #2 of this link is the breaker item 'N' that Lippert recommends, and it is an 80 amp breaker. https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd-0002523.pdf


And this is the Lippert LIP Sheet 0058 that describes the upgrade. https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/...ippert0058.pdf
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Old 12-24-2020, 06:43 PM   #28
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You just as well put in a solid piece of wire in place of the 50 amp breaker. If you do not upgrade the wire to something like 4 AWG, the 80 amp will overload the 10 AWG wire and burn it up and maybe your trailer, too.

I can't believe there are electricians chiming in here and not questioning the use of an 80 amp CB on a circuit that is clearly not designed for 80 amps.
Don’t know where you got 10 ga wire. But my trailer is older and the wire even then is larger, 6 if I remember correctly but would have to go to storage and look. And that wire is only about 3’ long, hanging in free air, and powered for about 1 minute.
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Old 12-24-2020, 08:57 PM   #29
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I am an electronics tech and electrician. I install converters, inverters and wire homes. The math does not support wire size less than 6 AWG. The wire length doubles in calculation because the resistance includes the ground path. Put your length and numbers in this chart.


Yes, if there are no problems in the system, you will be ok. But if the motor shorts out or a wire gets a hole, the amperage avalanche will be instantaneous.

https://www.wirebarn.com/Wire-Calculator-_ep_41.html
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Old 12-25-2020, 12:28 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by beekeeper.va View Post
I am an electronics tech and electrician. I install converters, inverters and wire homes. The math does not support wire size less than 6 AWG. The wire length doubles in calculation because the resistance includes the ground path. Put your length and numbers in this chart.


Yes, if there are no problems in the system, you will be ok. But if the motor shorts out or a wire gets a hole, the amperage avalanche will be instantaneous.

https://www.wirebarn.com/Wire-Calculator-_ep_41.html
As a retired lineman myself I was planning to upgrade my conductor to match the breaker in order to ensure it would be adequate for any fault current. Nobody has weighed in on my other question about the front legs bleeding off in cold weather. I guess nobody has had this issue?
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Old 12-25-2020, 01:01 PM   #31
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Only 1 of 4 things will cause your front hyd LG to bleed down...
1. External leak in lines or connection fittings on either LG
2. Internal leak bypassing fluid
3. Hydac valve on LG not fully closed ... or manual override screw not tight
4. Air in system..cycle a few times to self purge
These operate in tandem so what happens to 1 happens to the other

They are also isolated from the remaining hud leveler legs
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Old 12-25-2020, 07:57 PM   #32
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As a retired lineman myself I was planning to upgrade my conductor to match the breaker in order to ensure it would be adequate for any fault current. Nobody has weighed in on my other question about the front legs bleeding off in cold weather. I guess nobody has had this issue?

If you have a newer rig, you likely already have #4 STR copper wires from your batteries to the pump motor and to the inside electric panel and won't need to change any wires. Ours is a 2012, and the wires were already #4. The only thing I had to do was open the holes in the ring connectors to fit the larger posts on the new breaker.
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Old 12-27-2020, 08:52 PM   #33
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Buy the self resetting breaker or you will be ducking inside the compartment to reset it every time it pops.
https://www.elecdirect.com/fuse-hold...-1-12-30-volts
Why would a new 80A replacement pop all the time?
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Old 12-27-2020, 09:23 PM   #34
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Would there happen to be a video out there showing how the swap is done?
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Old 12-28-2020, 07:25 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
Only 1 of 4 things will cause your front hyd LG to bleed down...
1. External leak in lines or connection fittings on either LG
2. Internal leak bypassing fluid
3. Hydac valve on LG not fully closed ... or manual override screw not tight
4. Air in system..cycle a few times to self purge
These operate in tandem so what happens to 1 happens to the other

They are also isolated from the remaining hud leveler legs
Hi Chuck, I found a leak in my kitchen slide hydraulic cylinder and am thinking air could be getting into the system there. I am reaching out to Keystone and to Lippert this morning to see what they say. My rig is a 2019 3791RD so it is not that old and I am hoping they stand behind this.
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Old 12-28-2020, 08:06 AM   #36
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Hi Chuck, I found a leak in my kitchen slide hydraulic cylinder and am thinking air could be getting into the system there. I am reaching out to Keystone and to Lippert this morning to see what they say. My rig is a 2019 3791RD so it is not that old and I am hoping they stand behind this.
You may need to call Lippert if they do not. Their warranty may be longer
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Old 12-28-2020, 03:15 PM   #37
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I also have a 2019 3791RD and my dining room slide ram is leaking slightly. I'd be interested if Lippert covers it. I do have a 6 yr extended warranty if not.
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Old 01-22-2021, 08:14 AM   #38
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I also have a 2019 3791RD and my dining room slide ram is leaking slightly. I'd be interested if Lippert covers it. I do have a 6 yr extended warranty if not.
Hi Robert, so to follow up, Lippert did stand behind this and sent me a new hydraulic cylinder two days ago at no cost to me, which I installed myself versus using my extended warranty. I chose to go this route because of the hassle and time in getting this issue diagnosed (the problem was obvious) and repaired using the warranty. It is a relatively easy repair short of the coroplast removal which is kind of a hassle. The new cylinder is working perfect and my front jacks have stayed up the last two nights. In my previous post I noted that my front stabilizer jacks would bleed off when the temperature got below freezing. It must have been due to air in the system from the leaking cylinder. My leak started slow and got worse very quickly. The temps over the last couple of nights have been above freezing but that is going to change in the next few days with a winter storm moving through. I will know for sure about the stabilizer jacks in the next couple of nights.
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Old 01-22-2021, 09:10 AM   #39
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Thanks, Lazy Ike. I've been trying to get my rig in for another issue, but the service center is out to March on appointments. I've got a crack in the side wall below the rear DS slide.
I have also noticed I've got a leak at the valve manifold in the battery compartment again. They replaced the entire manifold under warranty less than a year ago. The leak is small, but I'm tired of mopping up hydraulic fluid every time I go into the battery compartment. I think I'll give Lippert a call and see if they will just send me the valve replacement. Looks like a simple repair.
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