Insurance and Class A license - Montana Owners Club

mgdg · 10-17-2009, 02:00 AM

A Friend we bowl with that has a 5th wheel in Canada with insurance with Allstate was sent a letter that he needed a Class A type license to continue being insured. His insurance came due and this is what they want. Mo Money Mo Money what a scam, gov and insurance companies in bed again!!

Waynem · 10-17-2009, 03:36 AM

Mark,
I agree that insurance companies are a big rip off - until you need them, but most can go for long periods of time without ever making a claim.

My insurance rates increase yearly, and I just figure it is the nature of the beast. Not knowing what the Canadian law is, I really cannot comment on whether it was because of his class of license change, or just that insurance rates increased this year. I do know that here in Texas, insurance is not based on what type of license you have, but the type of vehicle you drive and how much it is valued for. Classes of licenses here are discussed in the Texas Drivers Handbook, and anything that is 26,001 pounds or more requires at least a Class B license to drive.

BB_TX · 10-17-2009, 04:38 AM

There is a current thread on the other RV forum about it. Apparently it is just an Ontario thing. Seems to be come confusion about some new regulations on trailer weights.

jjackflash · 10-17-2009, 08:30 AM

In California any trailer over 10,000 you need a non-commercial class A license.
Jack

**Carl n Susan** · 10-17-2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by jjackflash

In California any trailer over 10,000 you need a non-commercial class A license.
Jack

Not exactly Jack. In CA, a 5th wheel over 15K is what requires the non-commercial class A license. A 5th wheel between 10K and 15K only requires a Type 41 RV Endorsement.

Of course very few people including the DMV and CHP are aware of the various requirements.

jjackflash · 10-17-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Carl n Susan

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by jjackflash

In California any trailer over 10,000 you need a non-commercial class A license.
Jack

Not exactly Jack. In CA, a 5th wheel over 15K is what requires the non-commercial class A license. A 5th wheel between 10K and 15K only requires a Type 41 RV Endorsement.

Of course very few people including the DMV and CHP are aware of the various requirements.

My mistake,you're right Carl. Did they change that law recently, I remember reading anything that weighed over 10,000 lbs. or was I reading towing a travel trailer not a 5er.
Jack

**Carl n Susan** · 10-17-2009, 05:35 PM

I don't know when the law last changed Jack. I believe the rules have been in place for a few years, if not more. The information booklet was revised in 2008 but who knows what was updated.

Yup, a travel trailer over 10K (or a 5th wheel over 15K) requires a non-commercial Class A license. But you can drive a motor home up to 40', regardless of what it weighs, with just a standard license.

jjackflash · 10-17-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Carl n Susan

I don't know when the law last changed Jack. I believe the rules have been in place for a few years, if not more. The information booklet was revised in 2008 but who knows what was updated.

Yup, a travel trailer over 10K (or a 5th wheel over 15K) requires a non-commercial Class A license. But you can drive a motor home up to 40', regardless of what it weighs, with just a standard license.

I never could understand that,to get my commercial class A' I had to go through all kinds of test including a driving test hauling a 53 footer yet to operate a 40' diesel motor home with air brakes you only need a class C license, Thats good old California.
Jack

Lije Baley · 12-15-2009, 09:51 AM

Dang. I think the 2955 was under 10k (is it Carl?), but the 3150 is not. I just received my new DL, and now I need an endorsement. There is precious litle info on DMV's website about it.

I found this in the Vehicle Code, if one needs to inform the DMV clerk:

§12804.9 (b)(3) Class C includes the following:
...
(F)...(ii) A two-axle vehicle weighing 4,000 pounds or more unladen when
towing a fifth-wheel travel trailer exceeding 10,000 pounds, but not
exceeding 15,000 pounds, gross vehicle weight rating, when the
towing of the trailer is not for compensation, and if the person has
passed a specialized written examination provided by the department
relating to the knowledge of this code and other safety aspects
governing the towing of recreational vehicles upon the highway.
The authority to operate combinations of vehicles under this
subparagraph may be granted by endorsement on a class C license upon
completion of that written examination.

nailbender · 12-15-2009, 10:32 AM

Bill, this is what you are looking for
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl648/dl648pt5.htm

The endorsement test is only 20 questions. It is easy to do, read the handbook, take the test, new photo, eye test, thumb print and no fees for this. I took my test 3 years ago and our local DMV didn't know anything about it, wanted to charge, couldn't find the test, and couldn't find the answer sheet. I missed one question, you are allowed four wrong answers to pass.

8e3k0 · 12-15-2009, 11:11 AM

Here in Alberta you do not need other than a Class 5 as long as the unit is non-commercial. If you are running a vehicle with air brakes you than need the "Q" endorsement for air with the class 5 or better.

HamRad · 12-15-2009, 11:20 AM

Hi Bill and Mariana,
Don got the process exactly correct; right down to the local DMV not knowing anything about the process. In my case it took them about half an hour to finally figure things out. They ended up having to make a photo copy of the test out of one of their training manuals.

The only thing I'd add is that it may cost you IF you are within a certain time of your license renewal. I think it is six months but I'm not for sure. Otherwise as Don stated there is no charge.

I've been stopped once since I got the endorsement and as far as I know the officer did not even look at the endorsement. If he was going to question me about it I'd think he'd have to check the trailer first to get the weight.

I would have hated to not have the endorsement if he had been checking. I understand that they can require you to drop your trailer where they stopped you. Then either you have to go and get the endorsement or get someone with a proper license to tow the rig for you. That is what got me to get the endorsement in the first place. I had read on the Escapees Forum that the CHP out of Sacramento was checking for the proper license if they had stopped you for some other reason. But just how many times have you ever seen someone pulled over that was pulling a 5th wheel. I don't think I've ever seen anyone. Still I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Dennis

**Carl n Susan** · 12-15-2009, 11:55 AM

Well Bill I think (without actually going out and looking), the "dry" weight of a 2955 is 9600 lbs. but the total weight when loaded in 12,000 lbs. So you legally needed the license all along. But as Dennis said, the CHP doesn't seem to be enforcing this one too hard.

Be prepared to explain to the DMV clerk what all is needed. They likely won't know. Ask for a supervisor if they give you any hassle. I went through the process two times before the clerk got the right material. And then the license came without the endorsement! That required a couple of phone calls to the Commercial License Division (good thing I had contacts in the DMV to learn those were the folks to call) who researched the records (DMV digitizes all paperwork) and confirmed I had successfully completed the requirements.

Besides Don's link, go to
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl648/dl648.pdf
print and read the booklet. Pretty straight forward stuff and with it you should ace the exam.

Good luck on getting an appointment with DMV for the test. You probably don't want to do a "walk-in" as the wait is supposed to be horrendous. But with "Furlough Fridays" and staffing shortages, getting an appointment is allegedly tough. They only do 30 days in advance and they are sucked up immediately. The trick is to get on the DMV Appointment system at Midnight when they add the new day.

Perhaps the Blythe DMV office isn't as busy and you can get an appointment there for when you are in Quartzsite? Maybe we can get Robbie to add it to the Quartzsite Agenda as a group activity?

HamRad · 12-15-2009, 02:12 PM

Regarding the weight issue: As I understand it the weight that the officer goes by is the one listed on the trailer. For instance my 3295 is listed at 14,400. It would not matter if the trailer actually weighs only 9,000 pounds. The officer would have to go with the listed weight rating. Since the listed weight is over the 10k but under the 15k I'd still need to have the endorsement.

Dennis

richfaa · 12-16-2009, 04:05 AM

Ohio requires no special license or testing to drive a RV. Just jump in it and drive away. Meanwhile I need a CDL to drive the school bus or the Charter bus and go through testing and physicals every year. What is wrong with that picture??? I do, so I am told, get a discount on our Policies because we have a CDL and a safe driving record... However..it goes up every year anyhow...

Sierra 117 · 12-16-2009, 02:24 PM

In Ontario you need a class A or a restricted class A if the actual weight of the trailer on the tires only, not counting the pin weight is more than 10,000 lbs. Since many drivers do not know the weight their 5th wheel transfers to the road, they drive with a lesser endorsement. They also know they can't be caught unless they are weighed and the the DOT doesn't normally bother with non commercial rigs.

You may also like: