New Light Weight Montana's

[Hooker]

As stated above, manufacturer's tow ratings are very deceiving.

Rainer stated, "According to Ford's website out 2012 F-250 6.7l diesel crew-cab 4x4 single rear wheel short-bed truck has a towing capacity of 15,200 lbs." If you subtract that 15,200 from the GCWR, you'll find the answer is the weight of an empty truck...you can't pull a 5th wheel with an empty truck, meaning no pin weight.

[richfaa]

Light weight does not mean cheaply made. It means just that it is "light weight"

[bullroc3]

We went through the High Country at the factory tour last year and also the Montanas. We liked the floor plan of the High Country 343 but found subtle differences in the way they were made. The one thing that really turned us off was the bathroom sink. We did another walk through in Myrtle Beach last May. We though about it for a few days and could not convince myself to buy one. We then made the deposit on the 3400RL. The price difference, I thought, was not all that great considering all the upgrades in the Montana Line.

[richfaa]

There is more and more of a demand for lighter 5th wheels that can be pulled with smaller trucks. many of these light weight models can be safely pulled with a 1/2 ton truck. We have several in our local camping group and they are all within spec's.

[Rainer]

quote:Originally posted by bullroc3

We liked the floor plan of the High Country 343 but found subtle differences in the way they were made. The one thing that really turned us off was the bathroom sink.

Wow, one of the things we get most of the comments sbout in our 343RL is that bathroom sink! People love that glass bowl sink, plus we get a bunch more counter space around the sink.

[Irlpguy]

Two of the truest statements contained in this thread are those made by Hooker and bigred715:

quote:

"Light weight" is often a sales gimmick. I would do the numbers before believing that statement. Also, as has been said here many times, "pulls fine" means nothing because any diesel truck will "pull fine" any Montana...it's the pin weight that is the issue.

For one thing, you can't believe what Ford, Chevy or Dodge tells you about pulling weight until you do the numbers. I believe most of those numbers are on stripped down basic trucks as opposed to the heavier 4x4 diesel rigs with no fuel, passengers and tool boxes that we carry. The numbers are far less than what they quote. And DON'T believe a salesman no matter what he says.

In my research on Dodge trucks, in every case the Diesel had a higher “Towing Capacity” than any of the gas engines, including the Dodge Hemi.

What exactly is towing capacity as it relates to our TV. Does Towing Capacity mean we can safely tow a trailer weighing in excess of 26,000 lbs because the truck will get it moving from a dead stop, or because the power train is capable of towing that much without breaking. What exactly do folks think this means.

The GVWR sticker on the door of your TV whether it is a F150 Ford, Dodge 2500 or a 1 ton Chevy is the only thing that matters with relation to the TV. It is all about the weight of the truck with our tool boxes, full of fuel, hitch installed, yourself, DW and dog on board. When you actually weigh your truck in this state you will “know” this weight. Now when you add the “pin” weight of the 5er loaded and ready to haul, and the combined weights are still less than the GVWR of the truck you are “OK”. If not, you are over the rated capacity of the truck, in spite of what the darn “Towing Capacity” of the TV is.

The lightest of the HC fivers according to the Keystone website is the 325RL at 9095, that is “DRY” weight meaning you have not added all those things you are going to carry with you. It is rated to carry 2900 lbs thus putting the GVWR @ 11,995 lbs. The listed pin weight is 1950 lbs.

I ask any that say you can pull these HC units with a ½ ton truck to go and read the GVWR sticker on these trucks. The 2013 Dodge 1500 Max PayLoad is just over 1900 lbs. The 325RL unloaded has a pin weight of 1950 before you load it to go down the road. That folks means you are overloaded before you even fill the truck up, add the hitch, the DW and Dog.

[Irlpguy]

quote:
Richfaa wrote:

Light weight does not mean cheaply made. It means just that it is "light weight"

I went and saw a couple of these units at the dealers and also watched all the video's on this new Helium Technology, and IMHO that slide mechanism might be light but it is also "CHEAP". I have heavier cables supporting my ham radio tower with 1/4" galvanized aircraft cable on 9 guy wires.

Using a 2" laminated floor is "cheap" as is Italian poplar wood and adds no insulation value to the floor. How long will those nice Italian poplar cabinets stay together. Here in Canada we use Poplar and Cottonwood for pulp to make paper.

Again JMHO but I would not touch one of these units with a ten foot pole. They are cheaply made as well as light weight. It is not just quality that suffers when cheaper lighter materials are used, integrity also goes out the window.

"Helium Technology" - Something new and great or another sales gimmick. Remember the Hindenburg.....

[Rainer]

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

I went and saw a couple of these units at the dealers and also watched all the video's on this new Helium Technology, and IMHO that slide mechanism might be light but it is also "CHEAP". I have heavier cables supporting my ham radio tower with 1/4" galvanized aircraft cable on 9 guy wires.

Using a 2" laminated floor is "cheap" as is Italian poplar wood and adds no insulation value to the floor. How long will those nice Italian poplar cabinets stay together. Here in Canada we use Poplar and Cottonwood for pulp to make paper.

Again JMHO but I would not touch one of these units with a ten foot pole. They are cheaply made as well as light weight. It is not just quality that suffers when cheaper lighter materials are used, integrity also goes out the window.

"Helium Technology" - Something new and great or another sales gimmick. Remember the Hindenburg.....

I'm not so sure I can appreciate your logic when you relate the Hindenburg and helium. The United States had a practical lock on helium which is an inert gas (it won't burn at normal temperatures) in the years prior to WWII, this forced Germany to use hydrogen gas, an extremely flammable gas.

Keystone warranties their slide-out mechanisms the same on all their Montana tagged fifth wheels. I doubt that they would want to pay out any more in warranty repairs than they allocate in the selling price (supposedly around 2%) in any product they manufacture. And if they were inherently deficient then that would be grounds for a class action suit - and I haven't heard anything like that, have you?

I'm not terribly concerned with phenomenal insulation values since I live in Southern California where the temperatures are equally mild all year around.

I'll also take the fuel break I get on a lighter unit, smiling every time I pass another service station.

I'm just so glad we have the choices we do, I'll make mine and you make yours, and I'll bet we'll both be happy with them.

[Irlpguy]

Rainer my reference to the Hindenburg and Helium was with respect to the light weight construction of those machines and Helium gas being a medium to lift light objects.

Keystone like all RV manufacturers warranty their product for 1 year, in some, perhaps many cases they have stepped up and warrantied items beyond that period.

I see the cable system as cheap and more likely to be prone to problems than the more expensive/heavier hydraulic system, however I have no statistics upon which to base that, it is only my opinion. I however would not buy one. I am sure Keystone is counting on a large demand for their "Helium Technology" units or they would not be building them.

I do not see a mileage difference in pulling my 3402RL from when I was pulling a much smaller SOB, it is great to haul and I accept they are all going to eat up the fuel.

One good thing is we can all express our opinions here in spite of the fact some may take exception to them. There are those who have said they would never buy another Montana, I don't take exception to that just because I happen to own one.

[LuckyNichol]

We love our High Country. The cable slide-out system has been around since 1972. Over 42 years. Built in the U.S.A. The lightweight design promotes big fuel savings. High strength stainless steel aircraft cable is used for control. Cable control at all 4 room corners stops leaks. Working components are in you RV, safe from the elements. A very clean system-no leaky hydraulic lines or greasy drives. Smooth, quiet room movement-no jumping or jerking. The above floor design means more storage area for your RV. The locking motor secures room in our out to stop leaks. Ten reasons why. Just enjoy.

[richfaa]

we drove our 2008 F-0350 Dually out of the dealers lot and straight to a set of scales .The truck weighed within 25 lbs of the weight stated on the Shipping invoice. We did the same with both of our Montana's the 2006 and the 2013. They were within 100 lbs of the stated empty weight. Lighter and less expensive materials do not necessarily mean cheap. Our 2013 3402 Big sky is about 2K lighter than the comparable Mobil suites.

[1retired06]

We had several lite trailers before getting into Montanas. Met our needs at the time, and we enjoyed them, but in general, did not have the durability of heavier built units.

[bncinwv]

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy



I see the cable system as cheap and more likely to be prone to problems than the more expensive/heavier hydraulic system, however I have no statistics upon which to base that, it is only my opinion.

Our 3750 is equipped with the cable slides on the front slides and the "heavier" hydraulic slides on the others. Our rig is entering it's third year of use and we have not had a single problem out of the cable slides and actually am starting to prefer them over the hydraulic (faster, quieter and smoother operation). Our previous 3400 had all hydraulic slides and within two years of use, the entire hydraulic activation system failed resulting in replacement of the electric motor and hydraulic pump. I am comfortable with both technologies, and do not feel that the electric cable assembly is a "cheap" system. In reality. from a maintenance and repair standpoint, it appears it would be easier to work on than the hydraulic system. That is just my opinion.

Bingo

[HOOK]

Slides of all types are becoming less troublesome all the time. Doubt there will be a time of perfection. Hydraulic slides are less trouble than cable. No chains, cables, pulleys, is a very good thing. When the cable units are used on Montana slides, it is always on slides that are not tall or heavy. Front living and front bedrooms. The tall, Kitchen, entertainment, and dinette slides are heavy and tall . Remember, weight to weight. IMHO.

[mail2us]

We have cable on bedroom slide on new model. I agree that one or the other is not the answer but what works in different circumstances

[Rainer]

quote:Originally posted by HOOK
When the cable units are used on Montana slides, it is always on slides that are not tall or heavy. . .IMHO.

Well, on my High Country, the cable slides are on all four slide-outs, big ones and little ones!

Remember, before computer controlled (fly-by-wire) flight surfaces, aircraft were controlled by cables and pulleys - quite successfully I might add.

[richfaa]

we had the cable system on our Hi Lo camper years ago and it performed flawlessly.

Do a google on helium technology to understand exactly what that means. In short it means making the camper lighter in various ways.

[richfaa]

Another way the manufacturers made these things lighter for example as I recall the standard width a few years back was 96 inches. The Light weight models 94 inches..That cuts a lot of weight.

[1retired06]

We have have owned hydraulics in all our RVs with slide-outs, and with the exception of a cracked reservoir on a pump, which was replaced at no cost, by me, have had zero problems over many years of use.

[richfaa]

I might add that the hydraulic systems on our 06 3400 and this 13 3402 have also worked flawlessly.