Need help from the solar experts

[DQDick]

We are thinking about solar and basically we are without the necessary knowledge to make decisions. We know we need an inverter and solar panels and some switches and monitors of various types. We currently have two 12v deep cycle batteries and use two Honda generators so we are used to being able to run most of our stuff when we're off on our own. What we need to know is what you did and why, what equipment we should get, how it should be set up and how much of our stuff should we expect to be able to power. Also, since we don't know enough to be dangerous what is it we haven't thought off? Thanks for the help!

[bncinwv]

Maybe consider a few 6v golf cart batteries, an inverter and carry extra gasoline for your hondas. A heck of a lot cheaper since you have already made the generator investment? Just thinking out loud. As always, your choice based on how many dimes you want to part with. When you get your solar specs, i would be interested in total projected cost.
Bingo

[twindman]

Here is a link that explains a lot of 'stuff' about solar. I thought I had a link to some guy that has lived off grid for 7-8 years now. He can run pretty much everything in the rv (not sure about A/C). And he can go for 3 days without sunshine.
Some important things are wire size and even the tiniest bit of shade (bad bad).
Anyway, here you go:
"http://www.jackdanmayer.com/rv_electrical_and_solar.htm"

[bobcat92]

We had the same thoughts as you. DW doesn't like the sound of the generators and we would like to do more camping without hook ups. If you look at from a cost basis then you probably won't do it. You can pay for a lot of gasoline for the cost of solar! When we were at Q this year several members were very helpful and let us look at there systems. Was really great to actually get to look at it. Search for solar on this forum and you will find some good links. Greg's blog was a huge help. http://eilean350.blogspot.com/2012_09_01_archive.html Another is done by Jack. http://www.jackdanmayer.com/rv_elect...Golden%20Rules
Also had other that gave good info. Based on this information I bought most of the components I needed this year for solar. I ran out of money and time to the are in the garage but this spring I will get it installed.

Solar System Controller - TriStar MPPT - TS-MPPT-45
Inverter - Magnum MS2812
Battery Monitor - Trimeteric - TM-2025

[Alwims]

quote:Originally posted by DQDick

We are thinking about solar and basically we are without the necessary knowledge to make decisions. We know we need an inverter and solar panels and some switches and monitors of various types. We currently have two 12v deep cycle batteries and use two Honda generators so we are used to being able to run most of our stuff when we're off on our own. What we need to know is what you did and why, what equipment we should get, how it should be set up and how much of our stuff should we expect to be able to power. Also, since we don't know enough to be dangerous what is it we haven't thought off? Thanks for the help!

Dick PM me an e-mail address that you can receive a 10 mb folder and I'll send you more info than you can read in one setting. It's not necessarily our setup, but it's what I reference a lot when building our system. Also John/7.3Ford and Greg/Gkerlin, on here, were a wealth of info as well as others were a great help.

[Mudchief]

Dick, the first thing to do is determine your daily usage. There are calculation tables you can use to do this. However in my case I knew I was going solar so I installed a 2kw inverter then a Tri-Metric meter made by Bogart Engineering. This monitors how many amps you are drawing from your batteries. Then while in Quartz we had Discount Solar install the panels and charge system. We use 100-125 amps a night and live like we are hooked up to the power grid. The system will run everything except the ac units. It will run one but not not for long. By 2 o'clock each day the batteries will be charged up. We have 560 Watts of panels and a MPPT charger. With this system we get 35 amps out of the system on a sunny day and about 10 amps on a cloudy day. If it is going to be cloudy we have to watch our usage or the system will not full charge back. If we don't watch our usage then we have to run the generator about 2 hours to get back to full charge. We will spend this winter near Yuma, Arizona totally off the grid. Best investment we made and the government paid 1/3 of the cost. In Arizona there is no sales tax on solar.

[7.3Ford]

Dick,

I several of us have Uni-Solar panels, but the company when belly under, so they are getting harder to find. There are two types, ones with MC3 connectors and some with MC4 connectors. You want to get the same type of connectors if possible. Here is one URL of a place that has 10 PVL-136 and 10 PVL-68 in stock.

http://www.lumanetsolarenergy.com/in...&product_id=52

Most have 250 to 650 watts. Most of us have gone with the Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 Solar Controller. It is over kill but it has monitoring feathers that make it an ideal choice. Most are using 4 to 6 (6 Volt) golf cart batteries. Btw, you don't want to mix battery types, but some have with isolation switch like those found in boats.

[DQDick]

Thanks everyone. Lots of great information and an equally large number of things to think about.

[7.3Ford]

Dick,

Also stay away from ones that don't have connector, example the link about the PVL-68 don't have any. The have PVL-136 and PVL-128-T with MC3 connectors

[halfwright]

Dick,
I have 4 140 watt panels, 4 (trojan)6 volt 225 amp/hour batteries a 2000 watt pure sine inverter and a multi-stage charger. We have been off the grid and didn't run a generator for all of the summer of 2012. We can use the microwave for re-heating, a small coffee pot, TV and satelite antenna, 2 laptops and all the 12 volt stuff (not all at the same time).

Like was mentioned, you need to know what you want the system to do and design it to do that. It is one of those RV things. You will never get any payback, but being self-sufficent is really nice.
Arizona Wind and Sun has a forum that was helpful to me when I was setting up my system. Plus, they were the cheapest source I could find for new panels.
You need to remember there are three seperate circuits.
Panels to charger
charger to batteries
batteries to inverter
All need fuses and need different size wire.

[Alwims]

Dick, I tried e-mailing you but the file was too big for Yahoo so here is some links to places that helped me and as I said in my email, John/7.3Ford and Greg/Gkerlin were invaluable to me when we were setting up our system. Our system is a combination of both their systems. Don't get me wrong, there was a host of others that were extremely helpful, but those guys were my main players.

IMHO, the secret to a good system in BIG wire and when I say big, I mean 4-0 when it is usable. 4-0 is about as big around as your thumb. I used 4-0 when it had anything to do with the batteries such as battery to battery and running to my inverter. I used #4 and #6 everywhere else. Most large truck parts stores sell up to 4-0 cable cheaper than welding places, but it's still not cheap. Example is 4-0 was almost $8 a foot then ends were $3 each.

http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/forum.php
http://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/t...ging-puzzle-2/
http://www.dsireusa.org/library/incl...id=1&ee=1&re=1
http://jmayer6.tripod.com/id26.html
http://www.jackdanmayer.com/rv_electrical_and_solar.htm
http://www.rvtechlibrary.com/battery/bat_convert.htm
http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/tristar%20mppt

That will get you started and confuse the living heck out of ya. Also search on here for solar. These guys are pretty smart. Remember when reading all this, you are only interested in RV Solar and there are a lot of self made experts out there so take a lot of what is said, especially on the Arizona wind and sun forum, carefully. Those folks are pretty good, but they, for the most part, aren't talking RV systems.

[DQDick]

Thanks!

[h2ojocky]

Bingo has a good point. You already have spent the dough on Honda's so why not use them. They are extremely efficient and quiet. I don't have the money to spend on solar.

[DQDick]

Actually, we're going to add an inverter for sure and want to have an idea if expanding it further makes sense for us. I bought the Honda's cheap and fixed them up. I now have someone who wants to pay me much more than I have in them. Since my knowledge on this subject is minimal, I'm gathering all the info I can so we can make more informed decisions.

[Alwims]

I personally would recommend to Not get rid of the generators or at the minimum keep one of them to charge the batteries when the sun doesn't shine. If you are boon docking, you will need at least one generator.

[DQDick]

I agree, I miss spoke. Someone wants to buy one of them for way more than I have in it. Even if we do make the decision to go solar I'd never sell both of them. At this point we seldom use them to power the rig, but often use one for portable power for tools and other uses. Like many folks work their way slowly into full timing, we jumped right in on full timing but are now slowly working our way into boon docking.

[h2ojocky]

You might want to consider keeping both of them. You will need both of them to run your AC. I don't think solar will run your AC.

[DQDick]

Your right about the AC, but the whole reason for this post is to gather info to make decisions. We spend the winter in AZ and the summer in Kansas and travel in between. As a result we almost never use the generators because it's too hot in Kansas to just run one and cool enough in most area's of AZ we have stayed in in the past to not need an AC or we have 50amps provided free. When we travel, if we need the AC we generally run them both so that means finding a campground and getting 50amps. Now your question is probably why did we ask in the first place. First we've learned a lot even if we just add an inverter (get a good one, get a good battery monitor with remote capabilities, and use as large a gage of wire as is practical). As to why we might install solar even though the cost doesn't make sense - we have a hard time living with the generators running all the time just thinking about our contribution to global warming that we could be doing something about. Another reason we bring our car with us so when we do travel we aren't using our gas hog truck. Can you make a variety of arguments about how stupid our outlooks are - YES, but they are how we feel and when it comes right down to it we only have so many years left to make ourselves happy and why not?

[Bigboomer]

Dick,

Before you invest heavy into a solar panel system you should do a complete analysis of your anticipated usage to see how much total battery storage you will need. In the RV solar panel world you basically figure how many amps of storage the batteries have and divide in half, this gives you your usable battery capacity. You never want to drain the batteries past the half way point as it reduces their life.

I used Northern Arizona Wind and Solar's site which has a calculator.

If you plan on boondocking a lot for long periods and you use a lot of high amp devices (microwave, tv, etc.) then you will need more batteries and a larger inverter and charge controller. If you are an occasional boondocker with lighter electric demands then you may get away with the batteries you have with a couple of high voltage high watt panels with a good MPPT controller and good pure sine wave inverter.

Our system is designed to be off grid for as long as we choose (or until the electric switch gets turned back on!).

As others have noted their are some great websites out their but with the likes of John Kohl, 7.3 Ford and Alwims here in the MOC their advise is invaluable. Jack Mayers website is loaded with info.

One thing I learned from the first system I designed and installed is that you should always design for larger than you need so you do not out grow the system. That is what I did with the present one.

You can always pm me for more specifics on our present system or any other help.

Les

[DQDick]

Thanks Les we very well may take you up on that. The others have all provided valuable information and websites that's what's great about this forum.