Anyone running Lion Batteries? - Montana Owners Club

hemiallen · 03-07-2021, 10:32 AM

Ran across this brand Li batteries from Costco for a good price. I did DuckDuck searches, and found reviews but no real world testing like Rv'ers do.

Curious if they have been tested in the field by anyone here, mainly I am down to Battleborn vs Lion, and lion is an option mainly due to price. 210Ah for $1400, vs about $1800 for 200Ah Battleborns. My gut says buy American design and assembled, just curious if anyone has real data on the Lion's in-use feedback.

Thank you

Allen

firestation12 · 03-07-2021, 02:57 PM

Search YouTube for Will Prowse's videos. He has produced the most comprehensive reviews you'll find on anything lithium battery, solar, inverter etc. Be prepared to spend hours watching them all.

hemiallen · 03-07-2021, 04:06 PM

Thanks
I watched his comparison of the Lion and Battleborn this morning before posting, and a few other reviews, good information.

More hoping to hear RV'ers feedback using them, etc. The Lion saves about $400, just not sure from what I have seen and read if it is worth being a guinnea pig, or if others use them and I just haven't seen their feedback. Stiil leaning hard on the Reno/ Sparks Battleborn. They sure make a lot of explanation video's, if you can locate them all.

As soon as I message them, I locate an explanation video by them.

Thank you

Allen

R.S.O'Donnell · 03-07-2021, 04:56 PM

I too agonized over batteries. My big dilemma was prismatic vs cylindrical. After much deliberation I went with Battle Born.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjKCw1UmBrE

PNW Fireguy · 03-08-2021, 06:36 AM

Can't beat the Costco price and the warranty/return policy. In our environments prismatic vs cylindrical cells is a non-issue. If you want to go the drop in replacement router these Lion Safari's are at a great price point. OBTW Will Prowse review is basically regarding the original UT-1100 battery and Lion Energy has addressed the issues he raised. Follow the manual and torque specs and you will have a battery that lasts for many years.

R.S.O'Donnell · 03-16-2021, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PNW Fireguy

Can't beat the Costco price and the warranty/return policy. In our environments prismatic vs cylindrical cells is a non-issue. If you want to go the drop in replacement router these Lion Safari's are at a great price point. OBTW Will Prowse review is basically regarding the original UT-1100 battery and Lion Energy has addressed the issues he raised. Follow the manual and torque specs and you will have a battery that lasts for many years.

My chief concern was my custom battery enclosure and “here today gone tomorrow” manufacturer’s. I also liked dealing directly with the people that make the battery.

If I were just replacing the LA in the box I’d be more willing to chance it.

PNW Fireguy · 03-16-2021, 10:16 AM

Both Lion Energy and Battleborn Batteries will probably be around for the rest of my lifetime. They both are poised to exploit the growing battery markets in numerous verticals. I don’t think anyone would do themselves a disservice working with either of these twin companies. They both will engage with customers and both appear to happily accept visitors to their facilities which are both located in the US.

R.S.O'Donnell · 03-16-2021, 10:57 AM

Relion seems to be another reputable brand. I installed a set in a friends van conversion. It’s also the brand The Wynns use.

https://relionbattery.com/

PNW Fireguy · 03-16-2021, 11:40 AM

I agree there are several other reputable manufacturers out there. Personally I prefer the DIY route since this technology is within my professional wheel house. The ROI for the knowledgeable owner/designer is just too great to pass up. As an example I was able to produce a 16.8Kw hr battery pack which would have been the equivalent of 14 BB batteries for less than 1/2 of the advertised sale price of the batteries alone. Let that stew for a moment...3C continuous rating. That includes a high quality BMS that is not limited to the continuous100 amp line current rating. This is not a knock on the drop in vertical but rather just an effort to point out the what you get for your dollar. Despite the exterior packaging and the marketing dollars the raw materials are all LiFePO4 cells in one form or another. Each method has its pros and cons. The only bad choice is staying with old flooded cells.

hemiallen · 03-16-2021, 09:46 PM

Interesting on the build your own battery bank concept. Watched several make your own video's, from individual round 70mm long round batteries needing to be spot welded to tin plates, to rectangular cells with copper bridges to join them together, it looks simple up to the point of balancing cells, BMI choices AND the desire to heat the package for operating in 25F and above temps that may last a few days, I would not be surprised to see a kit available soon.

My battery needs will be base on the 30 watt Jaboni for a max of 550 W solar and a generator to top the batteries off. I forsee buying 200 or 270AH battleborns, and learning in a few months I should have delved into less expensive options. I don't see the need for more than the Solarflex system.

Sometimes one has to experience new technology before learning . It would be nice to learn wisely, not expensively, lol. As a former Mech Tech working at a national lab I had a lot of experienced co-workers with the skills to guide a mech tech in the electronics fine points.

Thanks

Allen

suny07 · 03-17-2021, 05:21 AM

I think Ray from Love your RV is running LION Batteries

https://www.loveyourrv.com/lion-ener...ut-1300-model/

66 Galaxie · 03-17-2021, 01:33 PM

The only thing I would add is that you look for a battery with an internal BMS (battery management system). There a some batteries out there with external BMS's and buyers should be careful with the connection between the two. An unregulated lithium battery can put on quite a show.

PNW Fireguy · 03-17-2021, 04:26 PM

That comment regarding internal vs external BMS is quite the blanket statement. There are lots of external BMS's that are light years ahead of the internal mechanisms used by some of the best known names of drop in replacements. The common weakness of all those internal inline BMS units is that their current passthrough is limited usually to no more than 100A. Higher end external BMS units do not pass line current and as such do not have that limitation. My battery pack can provide 3C, 7000amps continuous and 10,000 transient. None of those lower end more common BMS units could support that. There are many good BMS units out there to choose from both passthrough and shunted, internal and external. With a drop you get what you get with a DIY you get what you want and can afford.

hemiallen · 03-17-2021, 05:48 PM

And that sums up my opinion on why your average " car-guy types" won't try and build their own, unfortunately.

Anyone know if any reputable companies are offering cost-saving kits? I would imagine, probably right after I purchase my factory assembled batteries, someone will start selling kits for the semi-handy folks wanting to save $.

The few youtube home-built video's I have seen are either buy china products, wait for shipping, and you're on your own for the important "matching" cells ( equalizing I believe) . It ends up being more of a build your own then use the tools needed ( electronics- spot welding, etc) to build some for others to recoup the needed electronics tools .

Thanks again, every bit of information is good, if I can absorb and use it wisely is the key question.....

Waiting for Matt to reply via email if the 30A Jaboni-Solarflex setup is better stopping at 200AH bank or 270AH/ 300Ah of Li batteries and I believe 550W of solar cells to max out the Jaboni. I'll never ( crossed fingers) upgrade over the 30a system supplied due to parking in partial shade when I boondock at my favorite place.

Allen

wed · 03-17-2021, 05:51 PM

I think battleborn are the best but I have head the bass pro has a new one for 499.00

mlh · 03-17-2021, 06:31 PM

I wish someone would just say go buy this and this. I would like either a complete battery or battery and BMS. If it’s a battery and BMS give me a battery and BMS part number and where to get them.
Lynwood

PNW Fireguy · 03-17-2021, 09:11 PM

One size unfortunately does not fit all. I could share what I use but that is what works for me and not necessarily for anyone else. My budget and needs may not align with your budget and needs. Take aways from the conversation should include:
What do you want to do so you can size your system
what is your skill set...are you going the drop in or DIY route (not a win/lose proposition)
Do your wants align with your budget

Lion Energy has a killer deal going on at Costco this month that may help you stretch your budget. BB has numerous minimal discount option including Escapees discount code. As mentioned earlier in the thread there are several other reputable LiFePO4 drop in's available from Relion, Victron, and others. There are more than a dozen web based DIY solar groups that can be a helpful place for ths specific topic. If you are a Facebooker there are a couple of extremely popular groups with some very knowledgable folks. If you are going DIY know or learn what you need and be certain. High capacity systems can generate enough amps to cause serious injury or death.

I don't know of anyone building cells so that is not a path I would recommend to anyone beyond the seriously educated engineering type with DC experience.

If you still just want some names and models that may or may not meet your needs PM me and I will provide but without knowing what you want to accomplish you are likely to be ultimately disappointed. A DIY system that you can't put together or operate doesn't save you any money and costs more in the long run than a comparable drop in system with self contained BMS.

RipNC · 03-18-2021, 03:21 PM

I ordered 2 - SOK 206 Ah batteries today. They opened ordering at 11:00 a.m. EDT and When I checked tonight they are sold out again. These were recommended by Will Prowse as a good value Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery. Total cost was $2,058 - with free shipping! Can't wait to cleanup that battery locker wiring!

bcrvman · 03-21-2021, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemiallen

Ran across this brand Li batteries from Costco for a good price. I did DuckDuck searches, and found reviews but no real world testing like Rv'ers do.

Curious if they have been tested in the field by anyone here, mainly I am down to Battleborn vs Lion, and lion is an option mainly due to price. 210Ah for $1400, vs about $1800 for 200Ah Battleborns. My gut says buy American design and assembled, just curious if anyone has real data on the Lion's in-use feedback.

Thank you

Allen

Check the battery posts on the Lion's vs BB. As a former electrician I would not touch the Lions, BB is built to handle the current a LiFePO4 can put out or in. Also, at least the early LION's had specs that were a fabrication. BB's has been used by a LOT of Rvers for a while and I have yet to hear a complaint. I just ordered two more myself for a total of 6. You get what you pay for.

hemiallen · 03-21-2021, 04:14 PM

Thank you

I have come to the decision, right now, that I am either going to get BB or SOK's. My rough calculation is my battery bank will be $200 / year of guarantee SOK vs $300 / year BB's due to 7 yr SOKvs 10 yr BB guarantee. I could get a better charge controller @100A ( vs my factory 75A), and a victron 712 with the difference, but BB is built a couple hours away, vs overseas.

Thanks for all your input, my friends. Between your posts and hours of youtube, this is my plan.

Allen

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