trucks HP vs Tork - Montana Owners Club

Rich Lazz · 02-22-2021, 07:26 PM

pulling a 13k Monty and wondering if I truly need a 6.7 Cummings (370 hp with 800lbs of tork) or will a Hemi V8 (410 hp and 429 tork) do the job......as you know several issues.......original cost, mpg, hills to climb, ........the old 7.3 is now out and a newer RAM is the vision for the next truck.............probably not new depending on interest rates.

jsb5717 · 02-22-2021, 07:54 PM

For me it's always diesel. Just no subtitute for the uphill torque. Usually better mileage as well.

Rich Lazz · 02-22-2021, 08:15 PM

..yep, a little slow on the up take I is, and I knew that...........and maybe I don't need that new of a truck..............2012 serve you well?

RICH LAZZ

kowbra · 02-22-2021, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Lazz

pulling a 13k Monty and wondering if I truly need a 6.7 Cummings (370 hp with 800lbs of tork) or will a Hemi V8 (410 hp and 429 tork) do the job......as you know several issues.......original cost, mpg, hills to climb, ........the old 7.3 is now out and a newer RAM is the vision for the next truck.............probably not new depending on interest rates.

The difference between those 2 engines are huge; for a couple of reasons.
1. HP is more about acceleration especially when empty (so the hemi wins the race at the lights when empty). Torque is about pulling power. The Cummins has almost twice the pulling power (torque); it wins the race to the top of the hill when towing and by a big margin.

2. The other difference is at what rpm does the HP and torque reach their peaks? For the Cummins, peak torque is at 1800 rpm, which is right about 65 mph in 6th gear. And, for a really steep grade, drop to 5th and pull almost every hill you will likely find. Contrast that to the hemi which needs 4500-6000 rpm to make peak HP and torque; it will shift out of top gear before you even know there is a hill, and keep shifting, and jerking and shifting and shifting... all the while screaming at high rpms and rapidly dropping speed. Meanwhile your buddy passes you with his cummins while calmly eating his sandwich

If your trailer was 8000lbs? Then the hemi will get the job done. At 13,000lbs the hemi is really not the right tool for the job; especially if you anticipate any hills where you travel.

hth
Brad

Rich Lazz · 02-22-2021, 08:17 PM

Is your RAM a 5.9 or a 6.7? what kind of mileage? 3/4 ton or 1 ton?

thanks

Rich Lazz · 02-22-2021, 08:40 PM

Excellent answer.................yes diesel, blow that oil!!
Thank ytou

jsb5717 · 02-22-2021, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Lazz

..yep, a little slow on the up take I is, and I knew that...........and maybe I don't need that new of a truck..............2012 serve you well?

RICH LAZZ

Yes, very well. RAM has the 6.7 Cummins and 6 speed tranny starting in 2010. It's a solid drive train. Pick the truck that has adequate payload for your 5er. There are lots of well cared for used RAM's with low miles.

mlh · 02-23-2021, 06:48 AM

You need to understand the difference between horse power and torque. HP is 550 foot pounds per second. Torque is rotation force. Horse power gets higher as speed or RPMS increases. You can take a small engine say 5 L and get the RPMS up to 7200 like Fords Mustang and get over 500 HP. But it would be a very poor choice for putting your camper. A Diesel engine only puts out 400 HP but has lots more torque or power especially at low RPMS making it a far better choice for pulling your camper.
Horse power is based on time torque is based on power. You need power. Horse power will get you down the racetrack. Torque will get you up up the mountain.
Interesting HP and torque are the same at 5252 RPMS. Problem is almost no Diesel engine will turn that many RPMS.
Lynwood

Dave W · 02-23-2021, 07:46 AM

Technical reasons aside, I can relate an experience.

A few years back I had a Ford V10 and used it to pull our 12K 5th wheel on a trip. Good many hills and dales across Vermont and NH. The next year we decided to go back and took the same route. The V10, while it did a very credible job, it always seemed that I needed to row it up those hills in that the speed dropped significantly and the truck's transmission would end up screaming at 4000+ rpm in 2nd gear (5 speed). The next year, I had the diesel. Speed never dropped and the transmission would usually only drop one speed (6 speed transmission). The V10 truck had a 4.10 final differential ratio, the diesel a 3.55. Then there was the fuel mileage- 6 - 7 with the gas truck, 11 - 12 with the diesel. With the gas truck, it pooped me out while the diesel truck - not a bit tired

Yes, a gas powered truck can and will do the job - to a point and only the owner can make that determination.

rames14 · 02-23-2021, 08:17 AM

Trucks, trailers and hitches are all dependent on how YOU use them. If you live in flat areas, never leave that area and travel short distances a gasser will probably serve you well. Come out for a visit to Colorado in that gasser and head up to Cameron Peak on the two lane and you’ll be the guy everyone behind you is cursing as you go up the mountain in 2nd gear. Plus, the downside, as in the downside of the hill. Diesels have an engine brake. Once you get to the top of the mountain, you have to come down. With a gasser, downshifting will raise you rpm’s sky high, and then you’ll go to the brakes. More than one person has burned their brakes out in the mountains.

**DQDick** · 02-23-2021, 10:32 AM

The one thing no one has mentioned yet and would be the deal breaker for me is the exhaust brake. Coming down the Raton pass or any of the other roads like that, having the exhaust brake makes it like any other trip.

BiggarView · 02-23-2021, 10:45 AM

Basically you will blow up your Hemi long before the Cummins fails.... Physics. The hemi is working its ass off to do the same job the Cummins can do with one hand tied behind its back. That is what torque does. HP is for speed, Torque is for pulling. If you tow a lot the Hemi will eat your wallet compared to the Cummins. Yeah, diesel fuel is more expensive, but engine repairs are a financial nightmare by comparison. Cummins (or essentially any diesel) for the win.

DadsHemi · 02-23-2021, 04:54 PM

Before I had my 3500 I had a 2016 Ram 3/4 with a 6.4 Hemi, my 3/4 was 4x4 Megacab with 4:10 gears with tow package and 5th prep Etc.... it did a good job towing our Montana, kept in in 4th gear on the Hwy she would be turning about 2800 rpms @ 65 and motor on down the road.

We went to the smoky mountains and it pulled good, mpg was 3mpg pulling....yikes. Just rushing I would get 5 to 7. A truck like I had would be good for just a weekend type camping and not so much full time. There is no comparison to the 6.7 none whats so ever and was the best discussion I made buying my 3500.

paulinbaja · 02-28-2021, 02:06 PM

Fix the 7.3.

Leonard R. · 02-28-2021, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DQDick

The one thing no one has mentioned yet and would be the deal breaker for me is the exhaust brake. Coming down the Raton pass or any of the other roads like that, having the exhaust brake makes it like any other trip.

Could not agree more.
The diesel is great for pulling, but you will absolutely love it when you have to go down a hill with the engine break. I often never even use the brakes going down a 5 or 6 degree grade.

JABURKHOLDER · 02-28-2021, 02:59 PM

Torque is what you need to accelerate from a dead stop. Especially with a load. Horsepower is what keeps you moving.

High torque at a lower rpm is a lot easier on your engine to get a heavy load moving from a dead stop and for pulling up a hill. Diesel, diesel, diesel.

I know my diesel truck will pull my 42 ft Montana at idle. I doubt a gasser could do that.

mike18708 · 02-28-2021, 03:39 PM

I have a 2003 Dodge 3500 dually (only 135K original miles) with the 5.9 diesel at 330 HP/480 LB-FT torque. I'm pulling a 2019 Montana 3791RD at 13,900 dry weight/2835 hitch weight. I pull in and around the northeast so I'm always encountering the Appalachian mountains. Only the steepest grades slow me down to 40-45 MPH highway speeds. Otherwise, I can sail along at any legal speed.

Byron B · 02-28-2021, 03:58 PM

Stick with a diesel. If properly maintained, it will outlast a couple of 5ers. Who knows what your next rig will be.
IMHO, why buy new? Find a good used one so you don’t suffer the first year depreciation.

Drewman · 02-28-2021, 08:40 PM

Diesel forever, you will not believe the pulling power with all of that torq

glenshaeffer · 03-01-2021, 08:29 AM

I don't remember the name, but there is a chip you can get for gas engines that will boast foot pounds to be equal to diesels. I put one on a Dodge a pulled hills as good as diesels. My brother put on on his truck and said it made such a difference that he was out pulling diesels going up hill. You might nwant to check on it.

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