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Old 01-07-2012, 03:24 AM   #1
PSFORD99
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Dead Battery

This seems a bit strange, I always leave the fifth wheel plugged in all winter, it was time to run the on board generator ( 5500 LP ) Unplugged the fifth wheel , dead battery ,not even a click out of the generator, no lights inside ,completely dead. Jumped the dead battery with another, and started the generator. Let it run for about a half hour, shut it off, and tried to start the generator again, this time I got it to at least click the starter. Pulled out the battery, put it on a charger, it seemed to take a full charge. It is back in the fifth wheel, and It starts the generator as it has always done. It seems to me the battery should never have went dead being plugged into the house, what would be the cause of it going dead. I have always left it plugged in all winter ,and never had a battery go dead.
 
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:32 AM   #2
Tom S.
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Check your inverter to see if it's charging the battery or not.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:36 AM   #3
kdeiss
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Check your converter I think that is your problem not charging the battery
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:39 AM   #4
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Is the battery maintenance free? If not, the water needs to be checked monthly. I keep my rig plugged in and the battery is on a battery conditioner and the water needs to be refilled occasionally (I check once a month). It's odd that sometimes the battery needs a lot of water and other times it doesn't.

How old is the battery? For me, I followed this procedure and things went well until it got to 5 years old, then one of the batteries died. The other battery is doing fine.

Otherwise, if the battery is recharging well elsewhere like you describe, it's probably the converter. The hint is when you first jumped the battery to start the generator. Then you ran it for 30 minutes which would slightly recharge the original battery. You then recharged it elsewhere and got a full charge and now the generator starts off the original battery just fine. It sure sounds like a recharging issue from the converter.
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:43 AM   #5
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by kdeiss

Check your converter I think that is your problem not charging the battery

Is there a way to check the converter ?? I think I have read where the 110 lights get dim if the converter is not working right or going out. The 110 seems to working okay when plugged in. Lights are bright, no dimming.
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:48 AM   #6
PSFORD99
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Art-n-Marge

Is the battery maintenance free? If not, the water needs to be checked monthly. I keep my rig plugged in and the battery is on a battery conditioner and the water needs to be refilled occasionally (I check once a month). It's odd that sometimes the battery needs a lot of water and other times it doesn't.

How old is the battery? For me, I followed this procedure and things went well until it got to 5 years old, then one of the batteries died. The other battery is doing fine.

Otherwise, if the battery is recharging well elsewhere like you describe, it's probably the converter. The hint is when you first jumped the battery to start the generator. Then you ran it for 30 minutes which would slightly recharge the original battery. You then recharged it elsewhere and got a full charge and now the generator starts off the original battery just fine. It sure sounds like a recharging issue from the converter.
Battery is over 4 years old. Water is okay in it. It is sounding like a converter, is there a way to check them.
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Old 01-07-2012, 06:51 AM   #7
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Nope, the converter has nothing to do with 110 other than drawing it's power from 110. With the rig plugged into shore power, disconnect the battery, negative side, and your 12V lites should still work, if they don't then either the breaker for the converter is tripped, the converter is dead, a lead to the converter is loose or off, or their might be a fuse on the 12V output of the converter. If you have a meter, with shore power connected and battery connected you should read approx 13.6VDC on the battery, when you disconnect shore power it should drop to approx 12.6VDC. Those are a couple of simple checks.
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Old 01-07-2012, 06:58 AM   #8
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When my battery is charging (converter, battery minder, while in tow), the voltage reads way over 14 (as high as 16v) volts at the battery. When not charging it's about 13 to 15 volts depending on how much is being used by the battery. When the battery gets down near 12 to 12.3 volts it's time to recharge. This is what I go by. IIRC, this is the case with the TV when it's running. I recall reading over 14 volts when the alternator is charging the batteries and it's about 14 volts when sitting idle.

When I metered my dual batteries recently when on shore power I was reading about 12.5v, huh? When I isolated everything I found that the failed battery was at about 12v and dropping. It was causing the other battery some problems. After removing the failed battery everything went as described above.

From this I would guess, the poor man's way to tell the state of the recharging is to measure the voltage. When it's reading higher than 13 volts, some charging is occurring especially if it's over 14 volts.

Then you need to meter the output of the converter. I've never done that.

I hope someone else can provide more exacting methods.
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Old 01-07-2012, 08:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Art-n-Marge

When my battery is charging (converter, battery minder, while in tow), the voltage reads way over 14 (as high as 16v) volts at the battery.
Hi

At those voltages if you batteries are lasting longer than a month then you have a bad voltmeter

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Old 01-07-2012, 08:27 AM   #10
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by mhs4771

Nope, the converter has nothing to do with 110 other than drawing it's power from 110. With the rig plugged into shore power, disconnect the battery, negative side, and your 12V lites should still work, if they don't then either the breaker for the converter is tripped, the converter is dead, a lead to the converter is loose or off, or their might be a fuse on the 12V output of the converter. If you have a meter, with shore power connected and battery connected you should read approx 13.6VDC on the battery, when you disconnect shore power it should drop to approx 12.6VDC. Those are a couple of simple checks.
Talked to the service manger at the local Montana dealer, he said it can only be two things a bad battery, or a bad converter, the battery seems to take a full charge. Checked the outlet the converter plugs into , it is okay, the four 30 amp fuses on the converter are okay. The converter is a Xantrex XADC-80 . I don't have a volt meter, but will go get one. I have removed the converter from the trailer. I plugged it in ,and used a 12 volt test light, and it lights up, but I don't know if that tells me much. What kind of volts should I be seeing when it not hooked to the trailer, but just plugged in. I will have the battery checked also.
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Old 01-07-2012, 12:08 PM   #11
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OK, you've got the same converter we do. It's a multi-stage unit, so it's possible it will run the lites but not enough to charge the battery. For it to charge the battery it needs to put out between 13.5 to 14.5 (if you get much over 14.5 it can overcharge and burn-out the battery. Another easy test, with the converter connected in the Monty and shore power connected, run the slides in or out and have someone listen at the converter (don't know where your converter is located) if working propertly you should hear the fan run for a short period of time while the converter pumps out max to the batteries to recover from the heavy draw of the slide pump. Another thought is checking the specific gravity of the battery with a hydrometer or even take the battery to a Advance Auto/Auto Zone/PepBoys, what ever is near to you and have them load test the battery (most of those places will do it free of charge). Good luck
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Old 01-09-2012, 05:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by mhs4771

OK, you've got the same converter we do. It's a multi-stage unit, so it's possible it will run the lites but not enough to charge the battery. For it to charge the battery it needs to put out between 13.5 to 14.5 (if you get much over 14.5 it can overcharge and burn-out the battery. Another easy test, with the converter connected in the Monty and shore power connected, run the slides in or out and have someone listen at the converter (don't know where your converter is located) if working propertly you should hear the fan run for a short period of time while the converter pumps out max to the batteries to recover from the heavy draw of the slide pump. Another thought is checking the specific gravity of the battery with a hydrometer or even take the battery to a Advance Auto/Auto Zone/PepBoys, what ever is near to you and have them load test the battery (most of those places will do it free of charge). Good luck
Thanks for the tips, I removed the converter, and plugged it in, and it was putting out 14.2 volts, reinstalled it , and it was putting out 14,2 volts at the battery. Ran the slides in ,and out, and the converter fan came on for a short time. It looks like all is well with the converter. I replaced the battery, so hopefully all is well. One other question, how fast do these type converters charge up the batteries, if say they are half drained, thinking about running two batteries . Was told today by a service guy at the Montana dealer he would but a separate charger on the batteries when running the generator to speed up the process, so not to have to run the generator as long when recharging the batteries.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:03 AM   #13
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PSFORD99,

I think the dealer is trying to sell you something you really don't need. If the converter is working and trickle charging the battery, everything should be fine.

As far as dual batteries, that is a good idea. Last year, I installed 2 Sears Die-Hard marine and RV batteries. When I am not hooked to shore power or, the Bargman isn't plugged into the truck, all the 12 volt appliances are very "happy".
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:41 AM   #14
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That's a pretty good converter and with the multi-stage if the batteries are down a bit it will put out at the highest output (would have to drag out the book to know what that is) and as the batteries come up the converter drops back until batteries are fully charge then it goes into maintance mode.
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Old 01-10-2012, 04:24 AM   #15
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quote:Originally posted by MIMF

PSFORD99,

I think the dealer is trying to sell you something you really don't need. If the converter is working and trickle charging the battery, everything should be fine.

As far as dual batteries, that is a good idea. Last year, I installed 2 Sears Die-Hard marine and RV batteries. When I am not hooked to shore power or, the Bargman isn't plugged into the truck, all the 12 volt appliances are very "happy".

I removed, and checked the converter myself. He was just suggesting over the phone,when I asked him about the converter, that when boondocking, and running the generator to charge the batteries, it would speed up the process if I hooked the batteries up to a battery charger, and let both the generator ,and the battery charger charge the batteries. It seemed like a good idea to cut down on running the generator. The dealer is a pretty square shooter, but there batteries, parts etc as you may know are pretty expensive. While I am dealing with batteries I will add the second one, I will buy another one today, so they are both new. Both batteries will be from Costco, they are the 27 RV batteries, hopefully they are a decent battery.
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Old 01-10-2012, 04:54 AM   #16
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Check the disconnect is ON. If key is correct, it can not be removed.

I that is good check check you DC fuses.


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Old 01-10-2012, 06:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by PSFORD99

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by mhs4771

OK, you've got the same converter we do. It's a multi-stage unit, so it's possible it will run the lites but not enough to charge the battery. For it to charge the battery it needs to put out between 13.5 to 14.5 (if you get much over 14.5 it can overcharge and burn-out the battery. Another easy test, with the converter connected in the Monty and shore power connected, run the slides in or out and have someone listen at the converter (don't know where your converter is located) if working propertly you should hear the fan run for a short period of time while the converter pumps out max to the batteries to recover from the heavy draw of the slide pump. Another thought is checking the specific gravity of the battery with a hydrometer or even take the battery to a Advance Auto/Auto Zone/PepBoys, what ever is near to you and have them load test the battery (most of those places will do it free of charge). Good luck
Thanks for the tips, I removed the converter, and plugged it in, and it was putting out 14.2 volts, reinstalled it , and it was putting out 14,2 volts at the battery. Ran the slides in ,and out, and the converter fan came on for a short time. It looks like all is well with the converter. I replaced the battery, so hopefully all is well. One other question, how fast do these type converters charge up the batteries, if say they are half drained, thinking about running two batteries . Was told today by a service guy at the Montana dealer he would but a separate charger on the batteries when running the generator to speed up the process, so not to have to run the generator as long when recharging the batteries.
While I hope you are right for your sake about the converter, I just want to say that ours had an intermittent problem - sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. I finally replaced it and haven't had problem since.
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Tom S.

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by PSFORD99

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by mhs4771

OK, you've got the same converter we do. It's a multi-stage unit, so it's possible it will run the lites but not enough to charge the battery. For it to charge the battery it needs to put out between 13.5 to 14.5 (if you get much over 14.5 it can overcharge and burn-out the battery. Another easy test, with the converter connected in the Monty and shore power connected, run the slides in or out and have someone listen at the converter (don't know where your converter is located) if working propertly you should hear the fan run for a short period of time while the converter pumps out max to the batteries to recover from the heavy draw of the slide pump. Another thought is checking the specific gravity of the battery with a hydrometer or even take the battery to a Advance Auto/Auto Zone/PepBoys, what ever is near to you and have them load test the battery (most of those places will do it free of charge). Good luck
Thanks for the tips, I removed the converter, and plugged it in, and it was putting out 14.2 volts, reinstalled it , and it was putting out 14,2 volts at the battery. Ran the slides in ,and out, and the converter fan came on for a short time. It looks like all is well with the converter. I replaced the battery, so hopefully all is well. One other question, how fast do these type converters charge up the batteries, if say they are half drained, thinking about running two batteries . Was told today by a service guy at the Montana dealer he would but a separate charger on the batteries when running the generator to speed up the process, so not to have to run the generator as long when recharging the batteries.
While I hope you are right for your sake about the converter, I just want to say that ours had an intermittent problem - sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. I finally replaced it and haven't had problem since.

You could be right, it still troubles me that the battery was completely dead, with the RV plugged in, and then it charged up on the bench out of the fifth wheel. The battery is bad ,but it still took somewhat of a charge. IMO it should not of been completely dead. I will keep an eye on what the converter is putting out, I don't want to ruin two new batteries
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Old 01-11-2012, 04:20 AM   #19
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There is quite a bit of misinformation throughout this thread. I suggest anybody trying to learn about RV charging systems do their on research prior to making any electrical decisions.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:18 PM   #20
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quote:Originally posted by TLightning

There is quite a bit of misinformation throughout this thread. I suggest anybody trying to learn about RV charging systems do their on research prior to making any electrical decisions.
Is there something you could add to this thread ?? I would be more than happy to listen. The only decision I made was replacing a bad battery, and checking the out put of the converter. All seems well . The new batteries were reading 2/3 charged when installed , plugged in the trailer, and today they were reading a full charge.
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