Frame Problems with 06 Montana - Montana Owners Club

rickfox · 09-13-2009, 12:13 PM

I looked around some and didn't find anything that seemed recently relevant, so have started this post.

We just finished a 6500 mile 2-month trip in our 06 Montana 3400RL. As we continued on our trip my wife noticed that the wardrobe drawers (not the chest of drawers) in the bedroom started coming open while we were driving down the road.

When we arrived home, I noticed that all four drawers were open. A quick look showed that the latches at the center of each drawer were not properly aligned with the fixed latching mechanism - I thought I would have the readjust them.

Several days later (after having unhitched) I went out to do the work. Surprisingly, all the drawers latched fine. Upon further inspection I noticed that the wall that separates the TV/drawers from the sliding glass closet was badly broken down at the bottom where it once was connected to the closet floor, and had buckled outward into the closet area.

I pushed the wall back into place, and then hitched up the TV. As my wife lowered the trailer onto the hitch I positioned myself inside the trailer and watched what might happen as the weight was transferred off the landing gear and onto the hitch.

The bottom floor started rising as the trailer was lowered onto the hitch. The floor came up about 1" and again buckled out the wall.

To me this indicates a clear problem with the frame in and around the king pin area. I know there were frame problems with the 04 and earlier models but have not heard about this problem since.

What is the scoop on this issue, and is anyone else beginning to have problems with the 06 models? If problems have been found, where was the damage sustained, and how was it repaired?

wswebster · 09-13-2009, 01:12 PM

No problem with ours.

Mrs. CountryGuy · 09-13-2009, 01:48 PM

Sounds like the classic frame flex to me.

Try this: top of THIS page, click on Search.

When you get there, here is what you do:

After "Search For", type in Frame flex.

then be sure these are marked:

"Match exact phrase" and "Match loose keyword (Find "test", "testing", etc)"

Search "ALL FORUMS", "Entire message" and here is the important thing, click on "Archived Posts"

Also search "Any date"

Start reading, there are quite a few hits.

See if that helps until one of the fellas comes along with a great techy explanation.

Good luck, sorry you are having troubles.

dsprik · 09-13-2009, 01:49 PM

If it is a frame flex, Lippert will have to fix it, Rick. I don't believe it is something that can be tackled by a "civilian"... There are ways to tell if it is specifically frame flex. Others with more knowledge on this than me will be by shortly.

ols1932 · 09-13-2009, 01:57 PM

Generally speaking, once out of warranty no company is obligated to fix the frame flex. We had to pay to have ours fixed even though the frame flex was brought about by inappropriate bracing and welding around the king pin area. Once fixed, it has no longer flexed. It can be expensive, but in our case, since are full time, we opted to pay the money and be clear of any more problems in this area.

Now having said all of that, there have been instances when companies have gone out of the way to fix things out of warranty, Keystone being one of them. In our case, Lippert wouldn't even budge.

I for one think it would be worth it if you have it fixed yourself because you'll have peace of mind as you travel. The way it is now you can't even use it.

Orv

richfaa · 09-13-2009, 02:10 PM

Could be....on our 06 3400.Nothing as bad as yours. We noted that on the door side there is a 1/2 inch separation from the front cap that runs about two feet back along the front overhang. It is separated when the camper IS NOT hooked to the truck and when we hook up it closes up.. That IS NOT the normal frame flex symptom... We have talked to Lippert, sent pictures and will have a chat with them at the fall rally.

Countryfolks · 09-13-2009, 02:13 PM

Seems to me someone posted earlier this year on a similar problem. I think they went through customer to get the frame fixed.

rickfox · 09-13-2009, 03:03 PM

I had a 1998 Cardinal where the outside fiberglass wall started splitting at the front bottom of the bed slide. Not the same problem as here but required additional steel strengthening and removal of the bottom fiberglass under the 5th wheel overhang.

I will take some photos of the damage inside, and then take the fiberglass off under the overhang Monday in order to take a look. My guess is I will find some broken welds. If so, I will start out by having my next door neighbor help me repair the welds and probably put in some reinforcement.

We have been on a number of trips and would guess we have approximately 20K miles on the trailer. This problem surfaced probably 4000 in to our last 6500 mile trip. I thus would guess the problem started becoming noticeable around 17K or 18K miles or so. I don't know if this is just a few, or a lot of miles. In November, the trailer will be 4 years old.

Although the trailer is currently unuseable, it seems like it went quite a ways before starting to come apart. Should I expect more and try to "really make it stouter" or look into repairing things that have broken and improve where it seems reasonable.

Taking it to Lippert is not an option right now, especially since we are in TX along way from them.

Mrs. CountryGuy · 09-13-2009, 03:34 PM

Welding the broken welds is one part of the fix, on ours they also took the front cap off and added some wood,

now, I am NOT gonna describe this right, I just know it.

There are some channels/tubes down there, by the pin, they run from front to back, they are long and approximately the size of a 2 X 4. They drove a 2 X 4 (or something akin to a 2 X 4) into that channel/tube as part of the fix.

I am not saying this is all they did, what I am saying is that just the welding of broken spots is NOT the entire fix. Believe they also welded in some gussets (triangle shaped) down there.

I would think that if you could get ahold of Darryl at the Service Center, they could describe the fix in total to you. If you are handy and understand these things, and it sound as if you might, they may be able to talk ya thru it.

Again, good luck!

lawrenceb42106 · 09-13-2009, 03:43 PM

We just settled with the insurance company on our 2005 3400RL. The frame tore the metal around the king pin. We had a Montana dealer remove the skin under the front and he said the metal was torn loose. I thought in may have been caused when I dropped it on the truck. It fell @ 6" on the truck. We had a dealer in Mi look at it and he said no problems. So we went on our trip to SD, MT, ID, CA, AZ, TX. When we hit east TX is when we had trouble on the inside. Cabinets and wall started separating. The dealer in MS told us it was not safe to pull, so we called the insurance co and had them look at it. The dealer said $20-25000 to repair. The insurance co got the bid and totaled the trailer. This the second one we have had frame problems with. The first was a 2001 3295RK with Keystone repaired it. It was 2 1/2 years old. We don't drive hard or fast on the roads. Dealer said he didn't understand why the fiberglass was not cracked or split. Have your dealer check it out. Maybe Keystone will come through for you. Worth a try. You could have the insurance co look at it. Our insurance first told me it might just be wear and tear on the unit.I just laughed them.I said prove it to me. Hope you have good luck on it. Was it my fault by dropping it??? 5000 miles later. Who knows, that what we have insurance for.

MikeM · 09-14-2009, 01:47 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Could be....on our 06 3400.Nothing as bad as yours. We noted that on the door side there is a 1/2 inch separation from the front cap that runs about two feet back along the front overhang. It is separated when the camper IS NOT hooked to the truck and when we hook up it closes up..

Rich - That is exactly what happened to our 2008 Big Sky. It's in the Goshen shop now and you will probably be able to see it while at the rally. Turns out it it was not a frame flex issue but a broken weld on the front of the aluminum side panel superstructure. Unfortunately (for us) the fix requires about 4-5 weeks and replacement of the entire door side panel. On the plus side, Keystone is taking care of the problem since we reported it while still under warranty. Hope yours turns out better!

richfaa · 09-14-2009, 02:49 AM

I will be calling Lippert today as we will be at Mor Ryde and in the area the 16th. This 3400 has over 30 K miles on it and a lot of bad roads. The separation showed up about 6 months ago and has not got worse?????

SlickWillie · 09-14-2009, 03:04 AM

Personally, I think Orv has the best solution. After looking at the welds that are visible on the frame, there is no way I would ever give Lippert another shot at screwing the frame up. I'm not the best welder, but I could sure do a better job than the mess I've seen under my RV.

8e3k0 · 09-14-2009, 03:45 AM

Remember for RVs, the manufacture does not have to have a certified welder to weld on a RV frame, so you get whoever was welding that particular day, penetration, undercut, to high a temp, not enough heat, who cares the frames are not likely quality controlled like the Automotive manufacturing, so some joints may not even be welded and this has happened at the factories. Again if these frames were designed and engineered for the loads, built and quality controlled one would have no problem. This must be very costly to both the manufacture and customer after the unit is built and then have to tear into the body. Somehow the "Do It Right The First Time" is missing??? Growing up and living in the Engineering field, these types of continual failures really make it difficult to understand how the manufactures get away with it and yet have to live with costly warranty repairs.

8.1al · 09-14-2009, 04:11 AM

The frame is narrower than the walls and there are plates welded on the underside of the frame that stick out under the walls and this is what supports the walls in the bedroom area. It sounds like some of these have broken and when hitched up the frame is just pushing up on the floor and not the wall. This is something any competent welding shop can fix. Might even do it better.

RADHAZJOE · 09-14-2009, 04:32 AM

2005 3400RL Same identical problem. Found two broken welds in the generator compartment. fortunately I have 5 year extended warrenty. I have an appointment for repairf at dealer next week. That extended warrenty has paid for itself 5 times over.

Maybe the warrenty insurance companies should put some pressure on Lippert/Keystone. In my case, they are the ones losing the big $.

richfaa · 09-14-2009, 05:42 AM

Lippert, the plant that is near the Montana plant is a fabrication plant., I have been there and talked to them. Welding and fabrication is what they do.

simonsrf · 09-14-2009, 06:10 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Lippert, the plant that is near the Montana plant is a fabrication plant., I have been there and talked to them. Welding and fabrication is what they do.

Pretty obvious they have a quality control problem as witnessed by this many failures. If welding and fabrication is what they do, they should learn to do their jobs better, or take on the fate of the rest of the RV world...loss of jobs.

Rich, please keep us informed on your repairs.

richfaa · 09-14-2009, 07:11 AM

It is NOT the plant that makes frames to manufacturers specifications. You or I can go there and tell them what we want and they will build it to our specifications. BTW at the plant that makes frames most of the welding and cutting is done by computerized robots????

simonsrf · 09-14-2009, 07:29 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

It is NOT the plant that makes frames to manufacturers specifications. You or I can go there and tell them what we want and they will build it to our specifications. BTW at the plant that makes frames most of the welding and cutting is done by computerized robots????

Rich,

I do not understand the first sentence of your post. Just to clarify; you are surmising that the reason the frames are failing is because Keystone's specifications are not high enough?...and the plant is not liable because they make the frames to those specifications?

When I worked in manufacturing, if the product bought from the vendor did not meet the strict engineering specification, it was not accepted, the fact that the material was cut and welded by a robot was totally irrelevant to whether the purchased product was accepted or rejected through the quality control department.

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