Bad Advice on Slide Creep Self Diagnosis

[dieselguy]

After some thought on my response to a slide creep topic, I want to point out I didn’t give good advice. Basically I said to remove and cap the 2 main lines from the pump to isolate the pump itself. This won’t help in your troubleshooting. When you bring in or put out your hydraulic slides … there is residual pressure in the lines when you let up on the slide switch. The longer you hold down on the switch after full travel of all slides … the more residual pressure there will be in the system. This residual pressure leaking past a cylinder piston seal is what pushes the slide with the least resistance open until the pressure equalizes enough to prevent any further movement. If you remove the lines and cap them off to isolate the pump … you’ll remove any residual pressure in the system and the creeping slide most probably will not move. You’ll falsely think it is the pump’s check that is leaking.

For anyone that currently has a creeping slide while the fiver is just sitting in storage … once you draw the slides in, let off the switch as usual. Then … just bump the switch once in the opposite direction to relieve any residual pressure in the system … after letting it set a day or so, see if the slide will still creep out. Since I can’t see a slide just walking out several inches on its own … this will eliminate the force that I believe causes it. As for diagnosing “if and where” a leaking cylinder seal is … although a bit involved … Lippert has that procedure online on its website. Read thru to where it talks about slide out cylinders.
http://www.rvupgradestore.com/v/vspf..._test_0076.pdf

[DQDick]

Thanks, that sounds like a good thing to try.

[jcurtis934]

Heck...couple of adjustable straps thrown over the top of monty, pulled underneath and kooked up tight will keep the slide in AND you get to be entertainment for everyone that sees it. All kidding aside...the bump of the slide switch in the opposite direction is "good food for thought"as they say. Some people do hold the switches down for a long time after the slide operation. Holding it down longer is counter-productive...as you wisely state. John

[RVTraveler]

I have had a problem with my 2004 Montana slides for a couple of years. This is a 29RK model with two hydraulic slides. Both slides operate on the same system and motor. As I bring the slides in, the bedroom slides operates perfectly. As the living room slide comes in, the power seems to cut out two to three times until the slide is completely in. I replaced the 50 amp breaker 08/2013. The slides operated exactly the same with the power cutting off a time or two while the big slide came in. Late this season, I was on a trip and the rear slide would move out about 1 or 2 inches shortly after starting to drive. I could stop and move it in but it would creep out again. Or I could leave it and it just stayed in the 2 in open position. When I returned, I took the trailer to our local shop and explained the issue. They had been well aware of the initial problem. I was told the hydraulic motor had a valve seeping and this could be repaired for about $155 + labor. As time went on, the pump was found to be just fine so in the next 5 weeks, they rebuilt the two slide cylinders. Final cost was $702. When I got the trailer home and parked, I moved the slides out. The front slide bucked all the way out and the rear slide started to bind on the rear end of slide. Finally, that end of the slide to the rear of the trailer bumped out and then opened fairly normally. Moving the slides in, the issue with the power kicking off had not been addressed. I hooked up and took it back to the dealer. A week later the trailer,again, is ready. The fix for the power shutting down AND the binding rear slide was to replace the 50 amp breaker with 2 40 amp breakers. That makes no sense to me. I told them to put the 50 amp breaker back. It will probably be another week for them to do that based on my recent past experience. Just very frustrating. Has any of you heard of these types of problems with the slides? I have used this dealer for several years with extreme satisfaction but this experience has given me some serious doubts about them. Any ideas would be appreciated.

[CORattler]

quote:Originally posted by RVTraveler

I have had a problem with my 2004 Montana slides for a couple of years. This is a 29RK model with two hydraulic slides. Both slides operate on the same system and motor. As I bring the slides in, the bedroom slides operates perfectly. As the living room slide comes in, the power seems to cut out two to three times until the slide is completely in. I replaced the 50 amp breaker 08/2013. The slides operated exactly the same with the power cutting off a time or two while the big slide came in. Late this season, I was on a trip and the rear slide would move out about 1 or 2 inches shortly after starting to drive. I could stop and move it in but it would creep out again. Or I could leave it and it just stayed in the 2 in open position. When I returned, I took the trailer to our local shop and explained the issue. They had been well aware of the initial problem. I was told the hydraulic motor had a valve seeping and this could be repaired for about $155 + labor. As time went on, the pump was found to be just fine so in the next 5 weeks, they rebuilt the two slide cylinders. Final cost was $702. When I got the trailer home and parked, I moved the slides out. The front slide bucked all the way out and the rear slide started to bind on the rear end of slide. Finally, that end of the slide to the rear of the trailer bumped out and then opened fairly normally. Moving the slides in, the issue with the power kicking off had not been addressed. I hooked up and took it back to the dealer. A week later the trailer,again, is ready. The fix for the power shutting down AND the binding rear slide was to replace the 50 amp breaker with 2 40 amp breakers. That makes no sense to me. I told them to put the 50 amp breaker back. It will probably be another week for them to do that based on my recent past experience. Just very frustrating. Has any of you heard of these types of problems with the slides? I have used this dealer for several years with extreme satisfaction but this experience has given me some serious doubts about them. Any ideas would be appreciated.

I am (once again) in the midst of a slide creep problem. In January of this year I took it to Camping world because the bedroom slide kept creeping out while in winter storage. They charged me $1100 in diagnostic fees and another $600 to replace the bedroom slide and living room slide rams. We used the RV during the summer and when we put it away for storage, the bedroom slide creeped out again! Obviously they didn't fix the problem. Now they want it back for further diagnostics. Well, that ain't gonna happen!!
I found a reputable RV tech with 27 years experience that will work on it and hopefully find/fix the issue for a reasonable cost. Needless to say, we're a bit gun shy.
I had the same issue with my slide and the circuit breaker. Replace the 30 with a 50 and still have the issue though only with the largest slide. I'll address this after I get the slide creep issue permanently fixed.

[RVTraveler]

Thanks, CORattler, for the information. I picked up my trailer today after the repair shop removed the two 40 amp breakers and changed back to the original 50 amp size. The owner was not in today so I was not able to talk with him. But they did something, at no charge, that allows the slides to operate as they should. I opened and closed them 4 times and they ran smooth. I'll now be putting it in storage so we'll see how things go in the spring. Reading of your experience helps to give me a little confidence back in this repair shop. I have dealt with them for 9 years and have been happy with them until now. They often tell me how to make repairs without buying anything from them. The $700 diagnostic and repair bill sounds reasonable now compared to what Camping World charged you. Incidentally, I suspect the slides run better because of some adjustment they made because I cannot see that the slides had been lubed or anything visible like that. I appreciate your input and good luck with your rig.

[woodtic]

I finally got my slide creap problem fixed. Turns out I needed a new pump. One of the internal valves was leaking by.

[CORattler]

quote:Originally posted by woodtic

I finally got my slide creap problem fixed. Turns out I needed a new pump. One of the internal valves was leaking by.

Thanks. I hope the fix for mine is something cheaper. As you probably already know, a new pump is around $1300 PLUS labor (I'm feelin' woozy just thinking about it). We're already $1700 into this and it's still not fixed. I'm beginning to ask myself the question "when do I say WHOA!" Can't keep throwing good money after bad.

[catskiner]

You could just get a slide-out lock for $37.00 at PPL

[dieselguy]

He'd have to get three sets of locks since our hydraulic slide cylinders are all looped together in one circuit ... there are no individual valves on individual circuits. The 1/4 turn manual valves just block flow to the extend side of each cylinder ... they won't cure slide creep.

[CORattler]

quote:Originally posted by dieselguy

The 1/4 turn manual valves just block flow to the extend side of each cylinder ... they won't cure slide creep.

Interesting... my slide creep issue has some strange behavior as it relates to the manual isolation valves. I retract all 3 slides and isolate the bedroom slide and entertainment slide. I check after 2 days and the bedroom slide stays retracted and the entertainment slide creeps out. This is a repeatable problem. No matter how many times I retract all slides and repeat the process, I get the same result.
RV repair tech will look at the problem within the next 2 weeks. Hopefully he will be able to fix it without emptying my bank account.

[leemedic]

I also have slide creep problems. Yesterday after driving 3 hours, I got home to find one slide open 3 1/2 inches, the others about 2 inches. I have a repair scheduled for January at Lazy Days in Florida. I also have the problem with the power shutting off whenever I close the living room slides on Battery power. The slides close normally if I am still hooked up to a shore line. Happens only on battery power. I have had the battery tested, and it is perfect.

[Irlpguy]

I cannot address your slides creeping out when traveling since there are many possibilities. As to the power shutting off when bringing in the big living room slide that I can address.

The slide is heavy, it takes considerable power to bring it in, particularly if you have previously brought in the other slides which would be the normal way they come in. A single 12V batteries voltage will have dropped some after bringing in the smaller slides, then when you continue to bring in the large one the current draw is more and there is a further drop in voltage, the lower the voltage being supplied the greater the current draw by the motor, it will then reach the limit of the auto reset breaker and the breaker will trip, after a moment or two the breaker resets and you are able to continue often with further stops.

A second 12V battery in parallel with the first one will give you the proper voltage for a longer period of time and in most cases will eliminate this problem. Others on the MOC have changed the circuit breaker to a higher amperage and solved it that way. I do not believe in doing it that way and have not had any problem with the original breaker when using two batteries. I "always" try to extend and retract my slides while still hooked up to shore power, that way the converter is assisting the battery/ies by replacing some of the current being drawn by the motor. Never an issue when hooked to shore power.

Good luck with the slide creep repairs, I hope it is a shop that knows enough about Montana's hydraulics and how to test the system to repair it with the least expense to yourself.

[twindman]

I drove my new Mountaineer (on very first trip) to the Midwest last summer/fall on the way to the Rally in Goshen. I had the same creep out issue when driving. To cut to the chase, after the Rally Lippert had me come in at 7 AM and worked on it for 5 hours. They said most times, it is the big slides that go bad. Mine has 2. They replaced both hydraulic cylinders (sp??) and I have had no more problems.

[dieselguy]

I’ll just state this over again as it’s hard to visualize for people that have been around more complex hydraulic systems. Unless they have changed the circuit in the last couple of years, our hydraulic slide systems are as basic as you can get … on the other hand this basic setup makes it a bit difficult to troubleshoot. Visualize 2 main lines running off your pump with all the extend sides of every cylinder hooked via a short hose to one main line … all the retract sides of every cylinder hooked via a short hose to the other main line. The manual isolation valves are in series on the extend lines to each cylinder to block extend side flow only. There are no direction valves that direct flow … what does happen is when you extend the slides, the DC pump runs in one direction … when you retract the slides, the DC pump runs in the opposite direction. Whichever direction the pump is running creates force in one line only … the other line simply allows fluid to return to tank. Since all cylinders are virtually hooked together via the two main lines coming off the pump … if there is a cylinder ram seal bypassing, the cylinder having the least resistance to movement will be the first to creep … not necessarily the actual cylinder that has the bad seal. This follows a basic fundamental of hydraulics that force acting on multiple loads will move the load of least resistance first. When you retract your slides and lay on the switch for a few seconds after all slides snug up to the fiver body … you create residual pressure in the retract side of the system. When a piston seal is leaking on any one of your slides, that residual force supplies power for fluid to pass equally to all the extend hoses slightly moving the slide that takes the least amount of force to move it. That’s how slides creep. There is a check valve in the pump that can play a role in slide creep, but I’m just sticking to cylinders here. The above circuit description does not cover level up systems as they have directional valves.

[CORattler]

quote:Originally posted by dieselguy

The manual isolation valves are in series on the extend lines to each cylinder to block extend side flow only.

So, if ALL manual isolation valves are closed (and operating as designed) then there can be no slide extension because hydraulic supply pressure via the common connected lines can't reach any ram. Am I correct?

[CORattler]

Lipsheet directory URL: https://lci1.com/assets/content/support/lipsheet/
Too bad there is no description for each.

[dieselguy]

I've never tried shutting off all of the manual isolation valves as I don't use them, but I'd think no extend movement would occur. I believe you'd just dead head the pump. My personal thinking is if you have to run in and out of the fiver to disable/enable a slide ... why bother. Years ago I put 12VDC blocking valves with unrestricted reverse flow to the 2 small slide extend lines on my 2980 and then transferred them to my current 3150. I have lighted rocker switches in the hall closet that I can select standing inside my fiver right next to the in/out master slide switch. If I just want the main slide to go out say when stopping to grab a bite to eat, I just flip the two switches and only the main slide will go out. Why Keystone won't spend a few bucks on a similar setup and ditch the manual valves that make you go in, out, and around to operate baffles me. SOB's in similar price ranges have them.

Here is a link to an old post of mine ... about 1/2 way down the page is photos of my setup.
http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...s=slide,switch

[CORattler]

quote:Originally posted by dieselguy

I've never tried shutting off all of the manual isolation valves as I don't use them, but I'd think no extend movement would occur. I believe you'd just dead head the pump. My personal thinking is if you have to run in and out of the fiver to disable/enable a slide ... why bother. Years ago I put 12VDC blocking valves with unrestricted reverse flow to the 2 small slide extend lines on my 2980 and then transferred them to my current 3150. I have lighted rocker switches in the hall closet that I can select standing inside my fiver right next to the in/out master slide switch. If I just want the main slide to go out say when stopping to grab a bite to eat, I just flip the two switches and only the main slide will go out. Why Keystone won't spend a few bucks on a similar setup and ditch the manual valves that make you go in, out, and around to operate baffles me. SOB's in similar price ranges have them.

Here is a link to an old post of mine ... about 1/2 way down the page is photos of my setup.
http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...s=slide,switch

Very intriguing and convenient. I like it!

[twindman]

I closed all valves on my trip. That was when it changed from 3 slides at an inch to one slide at 4 inches (or vice versa). I believe that means the cylinder gaskets are leaking. Anyway, the new cylinders fixed the problem.

quote:Originally posted by CORattler

So, if ALL manual isolation valves are closed (and operating as designed) then there can be no slide extension because hydraulic supply pressure via the common connected lines can't reach any ram. Am I correct?