Tredit's response on the Goodyear tires

[Ozz]

Good afternoon Jim,

I would have to say that by view the photos I can say that there my one of two probabilities here.

1) Tire inflation- if you are going by the provided tire inflation charts provided by Goodyear you may still be just a little underinflated. You may need to add just a bit more in order to achieve the weight capacity that you are looking for and the tire wear that is desirable.

2) scrubbing during backing and turns- it could be that during the process of backing your coach or taking a sharper turn the tires are scrubbing a bit which isn’t as evident on typical tires but considering that the G614 has a unique shoulder, the scrubbing is more obvious.

Do you happen to know what Goodyear deemed to be the issue?



Thank you for all your kind words. Have a great day!

Jennifer Miller

Tredit Tire and Wheel

[snfexpress]

I don't buy #2 at all! As for #1, I would think that the inside would exhibit the same wear pattern as the outside, which from what I can see, it isn't. But then, what do I know?

[DQDick]

X2 with Michael, on not knowing anything, and also on not understanding how either of those could be it. Sounds like the problem may be taking the flapper out of the microwave oven, after all Keystone did say something bad would happen if we did that they just didn't know what.

[Ozz]

My pressures are spot on, I had the right pressures (100#) in my driveway before I left, checked it along the way, and increased it in Amarillo after Lonnie suggested it wouldn't hurt anything, but he thought it was Ok at my 100# (Which when the tires got hot went up to 106# from the cold 100# anyway)
Personally, I agree with #2, I think the Goodyear edges are soft and 'sculpt' to the wear pattern.
Some feedback from members say their tires wore to the same as mine, then stopped wearing, just held that wear pattern.

[DQDick]

To a certain extent that could be true, but to wear evenly on all of them seems a stretch to me.

[Ozz]

quote:Originally posted by DQDick

To a certain extent that could be true, but to wear evenly on all of them seems a stretch to me.

The way I see it, you turn right as much as you turn left: even wear.
This ain't a NASCAR track Dick, it is the highway and gas stations, RV parks strip clubs, all with different driveways.. did I say strip clubs.. stike that..:0
One of the reasons for this type of wear in Lonnie's book of wear patterns was mountain driving, what does mountain driving have in common with the wear? highway speed turns and curvy roads.
You can't change the laws of Physics, there has to be some action that causes friction enough to peel off rubber from the inside and outside of the tires alike: Turns and tire flexing. Goodyear tires have a (probably) closely guarded rubber mix formula, that rubber mix and the side of the tire design just lends itself to this problem. As evidenced by the number of responses to this and the other similar threads.
I'm jus sayin'
I am but a humble fix-it-man that does good finding my way home when I'm out.

[Gkerlin]

My only question to all of this is the people who are not experiencing this wear. I think a few of them chimed in.

In my case - same wear pattern but the driver side inside is worn way more than the outside, and the driver side tires are worn more than the passenger side.

Maybe I need to approach the strip joints from a clockwise orientation for a while.

Still haven't heard back yet from CW on the hydraulic leak or tires. Dropped it off Thursday.

Ozz with the new tires what are going to run them at? Maybe go straight to 110psi.

[bncinwv]

I think you may be onto something there Ozz. Our tires do not show the same wear, but the majority of our pulling is on the Interstate Highway system (yes, even though we live in West Virginia, we are more urbanite than hillbilly-ite). It would be interesting to know if those that are seeing similar wear patterns are primarily travelling on hilly, curvy, two lane type roads where the percentage of straight-line pulls decrease as on the Interstate. If that is the case, the solution is simple........we can only use the 614's on relatively straight Interstates and in the state of Kansas!!! I guess the next point would be if the outer and inner wear stabilizes to some extent, does this necessarily lead to a shortening of the life of the innermost tread? I knew I should of stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, then I would know the answer and could pass it on to the MOC. The most interesting thing that I noted from Jennifer was the statement about the "unique shoulder". What's up with that?
Bingo

[Gkerlin]

Bingo,

Mine have 8,500 miles on them since new in March.

At least 4,000 of those miles was pulling round trip from NC to Arizona.

Then thru AZ, UT, CO, WY - Lots of hills but lots of relatively straight roads too. I'd say another couple of thousand miles of fairly straight roads.

Are you not getting any of that shoulder wear? Do you have the mor ride 4000 suspension?

I'm wondering if that has any side to side play that could do this? Just looking for some sort of common denominator.

I think the "unique shoulder" that she referred to is the big flat shoulder that the G614's have. Most other tires that I've seen have tread or ribs on the edge. I think she is saying that maybe its just more noticeable on the 614's due to it being so flat on the shoulder. Not sure that I buy that or not.

[MikeM]

Looks to me that the PDF guide previously posted here may have the answer:

http://www.euroratas.lt/galery/_euro...ysis_guide.pdf

Look on page 112 and you'll see exactly what I and others seem to be experiencing. I can't post a copy since it's protected, but the study seems to be a rather comprehensive documentation of possible wear and defect conditions.

[bncinwv]

Greg,
I will be checking the tires completely this weekend since I have to do a pink stuff inoculation at the mini-storage where the rig sits. I do not recall any wear, but will be checking very closely. I would guesstimate, that we have about 4,000 miles on the 614's at present.
Bingo

[Art-n-Marge]

GREAT article MikeM, however I think it's page 118 that describes the wear the others are describing. The claim is "PROBABLE CAUSE(S) - Typical of radial tires in slow wearing operations. May vary with tread design and service application" and the ACTION to take is "TIRE - Little or no loss in overall mileage will result provided tread depth differential is not excess. Tires can remain on the steer axle". A similar explanation is on page 130 as well but also goes into possible suspension issues as well.

This makes sense and follows any kind of turning and driving when the tires in question are installed on the trailer that has NO differential and harder-sided trailer tires are always dragged through turns. I suppose that if you inflated the tires to their maximum regardless of the load, then wear might improve.

This might be why LT tires are a good alternative since they are have more flexible sidewalls that might give more when on a turn. The biggest problem with LTs is finding the right weight rated tire size for your rig, but that's why we ask LonnieB for recommendation.

I'm saving this link provided my MikeM. It is quite thorough, comprehensive and informative. Thanks!!!

[Gkerlin]

Page 118 is definitely not the wear I'm experiencing. It is more like 112 as Mike M pointed out. 135 could also be it - just less severe (right now) than the picture.

That article goes hand in hand with another one I posted.. http://www.bridgestonetrucktires.com...ra_techspk.asp

This second article points out how the wear - once established could accelerate across the tire. The wear they talk about is exaclty the wear that I've got and Ozz as well I presume. His photos look just like mine.

All this info and unfortunately I'm still scratching my head.

When I get the trailer back I do think I'm going to increase my cold pressure up to 110. It's only 5 more psi so I really can't imagine thats going to take care of it but I'll try anything.

[moutard2]

I took the issue to my local Goodyear commercial tire "expert" and he said that he's seen the same wear on commercial trailer tires from time to time and that he attributes it to underinflation. He also said that you won't go wrong running your trailer tires at the maximum pressure which in his opinion, will probably eliminate the edge wear issues that some of our MOC folks are experiencing. He suggested that we might want to talk with some veteran longhaul truckers who might have seen the problem and perhaps the cause and the solution. He stated that the construction and rubber compound of the G614 is apparently similar to that of many commercial trailer tires so their experiences may be of some value.

[Tom S.]

quote:Originally posted by moutard2

I took the issue to my local Goodyear commercial tire "expert" and he said that he's seen the same wear on commercial trailer tires from time to time and that he attributes it to underinflation. He also said that you won't go wrong running your trailer tires at the maximum pressure which in his opinion, will probably eliminate the edge wear issues that some of our MOC folks are experiencing. He suggested that we might want to talk with some veteran longhaul truckers who might have seen the problem and perhaps the cause and the solution. He stated that the construction and rubber compound of the G614 is apparently similar to that of many commercial trailer tires so their experiences may be of some value.

I don't agree with your tire 'expert' about you couldn't go wrong running them at max inflation. It will cause the tire to wear out in the center of the tire and shorten its life considerably.

[bethandkevin]

Ozz, I think you may have hit on something with the Goodyear secret rubber recipe. The first thing I noticed was the different rubber compound the G614's seem to be made of as compared to the Marathons. They look and feel different. I believe the G614's are a harder rubber compound and so react differently when in turns or curves. Also, because they have a stouter sidewall, they should react differently (with less give). Mine only have about 3000 miles on them, but I will be watching for the pattern you've noted. This topic riminds me of one of my favorite lines; "Things that make you go hmmmmmmm......."

[Gkerlin]

For what its worth, I'm a "Veteran Long-Haul Trucker" I owned a COE Kenworth and hauled Meat out of Denver and whatever I could for backhaul for about 10years and almost 2 million Long haul miles.

I've seen all sorts of nasty tire wear but I don't know that I would compare heavy truck service to our 5th wheels. They are running a heck of a lot heavier, faster, longer, hotter, and usually the trailers are pulled by different drivers each load. some drivers will feel or bump the tires, others would ignore them. On one load you are hauling 40,000 lbs, the next 10,000. You didn't stop to let air out of the tires to adjust for the load. You just giddyup and go. When empty if you hit the brakes you'd often light up the trailer tires (smoke them) Creating flat spots. When's the last time you smoked your Monty tires? (OK no jokes)

When running in the rain and you stopped after a few hours often the tires would sit there steaming - they got that warm. All normal. Commercial truck tires get a hell ova lot more abuse and are pushed way more to the limits JMHO.

From my experience odd wear patterns on heavy trucks were normal and a cost of business from time to time. In the camper fleet however I don't think its the norm and that's why we are having this discussion in the first place I think.

I know that mine are not under inflated. That is not why mine are wearing like this. I do think however that if I can convince Keystone to replace them that I'm going to up the pressure 5 more lbs to the max 110 and see if it helps.

When I get back out on the road you will probably see me poking around looking at tires on other rigs more closely. Especially the ones without the "unique shoulders" to see if they exhibit the same wear.

If you see me looking at your tires... please don't shoot.

[moutard2]

quote:Originally posted by Tom S.

I don't agree with your tire 'expert' about you couldn't go wrong running them at max inflation. It will cause the tire to wear out in the center of the tire and shorten its life considerably.

No doubt many will not agree with his recommendation. I've noticed that even the so-called tire gurus are divided on the inflation issue. We can all form our own opinions based on our years of observation and experience and inflate to whatever we feel works for our load. His is just one more opinion from an "insider".

[Ozz]

quote:Originally posted by Gkerlin

My only question to all of this is the people who are not experiencing this wear. I think a few of them chimed in.

In my case - same wear pattern but the driver side inside is worn way more than the outside, and the driver side tires are worn more than the passenger side.

Maybe I need to approach the strip joints from a clockwise orientation for a while.

Still haven't heard back yet from CW on the hydraulic leak or tires. Dropped it off Thursday.

Ozz with the new tires what are going to run them at? Maybe go straight to 110psi.

I think it will make no difference in the long run, but I am sticking to the 110#.
I will be looking for a mix of strip club exits, but Sue is tired of me locking her in the trailer when we come to a big city. She reminded me that she is armed...

[Ozz]

quote:Originally posted by bncinwv

I think you may be onto something there Ozz. Our tires do not show the same wear, but the majority of our pulling is on the Interstate Highway system (yes, even though we live in West Virginia, we are more urbanite than hillbilly-ite). It would be interesting to know if those that are seeing similar wear patterns are primarily travelling on hilly, curvy, two lane type roads where the percentage of straight-line pulls decrease as on the Interstate. If that is the case, the solution is simple........we can only use the 614's on relatively straight Interstates and in the state of Kansas!!! I guess the next point would be if the outer and inner wear stabilizes to some extent, does this necessarily lead to a shortening of the life of the innermost tread? I knew I should of stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, then I would know the answer and could pass it on to the MOC. The most interesting thing that I noted from Jennifer was the statement about the "unique shoulder". What's up with that?
Bingo

Bingo,
I do think that the center wear will be fine, my 4500 mile tires wore only 2/32" (1/16) but the outer wear was bad. Maybe with twice the miles, the wear pattern would be less dramatic, but who wants the edges of the tires to wear like that? My Mission bombs did not do that. They blistered and failed... there's that..
I think her "Unique sholder" is code for soft rubber, or hard rubber??? and it will shred in 4500 miles...