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Old 05-27-2011, 03:20 AM   #1
CasaDelSol
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How do I hate thee DirecTV....let me count the way

Here we sit in NC with all our DirecTV equip and using the regular antennae for our TV watching pleasure. Apparently DirecTV does not supply equip to RVs. When you see ads for DirecTV for your RV it is thru an authorized dealer called Direct SAT TV. Once you sign up and Direct Sat sends you the equip and it gets up and running your account with DirecTV begins and you pay directly to them. Now..when you have trouble with the equip you call who? Well, without knowing that they are 2 different companies you call DirecTV. They love to tell you that they arene't responsible for the equip or the fact you can't get a signal. It took us hours of talking with customer service and tech support at both companies before anyone explained the difference to us. My reply was "who cares, just get the dumb thing to work!!". Wo here we sit with no sat signal. DH is a retired electronics tech and believes we have a bad receiver because the RF signal detector we bought at Radio Shack says we have lots of signal available...also, everyone around us has their dishes out!! Try to getting a service call to an RV!! That will be $69 please. Huh? Are you kidding? So, we will have to wait until June 5th when we are in a location long enough to get someone out to help us. If it turns out to be the receiver I am going to ......
 
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Old 05-27-2011, 03:38 AM   #2
hookman
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If someone let you try your receiver out on there system it will tell you if your receiver is faulty. Also I guess you tried running the cable from the dish directly to the receiver. I have also put my satellite finder inside the trailer right at the receiver to see if I was getting a signal into the receiver through the RV wiring.
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:05 AM   #3
pbahlin
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If this is your first time aiming a dish (just guessing) here are a few things to keep in mind.....

First, there are dozens and dozens of satellites in geosynchronous orbit. I've got an Iphone App that show's them all. Those 'satellite finders' that you get for 30 bucks will respond to every one of them. I know, I fell for the hype and bought one myself. It's for sale. I never, ever had any luck with it. It will peak up and you'll go wohoo and have nada at your receiver unless you are very, very lucky. Most of the time you'll be peaked on some satellite from Nepal or some 'Stan' country.

When you haven't done this before there are way too many unknowns in the loop. Eliminate as many as possible. Connect a single cable (no interim connectors) directly to your receiver and make absolutely sure you've got the correct antenna dialed in to your DirecTV receiver. Also make sure you've got the correct equipment in the feed. Some multiswitch antenna horns need a power supply in the coax feed and if that's what you've got be very sure you don't have a splitter in there somewhere. The DC power will not go through a conventional splitter. Some horns are OK to feed directly from your receiver.

Last and most importantly aiming the dish is critical. You have to remember that a half a degree error, over the 22,000 mile trip to the satellite, translates to about 200 miles off at the satellite. I've had occasions where I set up my tripod, plop the dish on and wham, there's a signal. That's happened twice in a year. More commonly it takes about 15 minutes to find a signal. And most commonly, it tries my patience to the max whilst creating uncommonly vile language, high blood pressure, and general frustration.

Here's what I do now, after living with this challenge for a year. First, make sure you have cold beer. Next, get a small TV and get it set up on the receiver so you can see it at the dish. In my rig I use a 'mirror' so I can put a tv in my basement that is running off the receiver. Throw away the Radio Shack thingy. Sorry, you probably can't find a buyer. The TV, displaying the signal strengths, is your best signal strength meter as it will only respond to DirecTV sats.

Then avoid the temptation to slap up your mount, whatever it is, and get right down to aiming the dish. This is the absolute most important thing. Spend a lot of time ensuring your mount for the dish is absolutely plumb (remember those 200 miles). Every minute you spend setting up that mount is a minute you won't be wasting while aiming the dish to the Nepalese Olympic Channel. When you're sure your pipe is so plumb a marble wouldn't fall off its flat top, go ahead and mount the dish.

Get the angle settings from your receiver by using the zip code from wherever you are and set up the angles. In my experience, the azimuth is less critical or sensitive, than the elevation and the tilt is the least important at this stage of the game. If your dish is like mine it's oval so this makes sense. There's more room for error in the long axis of the dish than the short axis. Remember that the three satellites you're after are up there in a line that is NOT horizontal. Tilt affects your ability to pick off three sats on that tilted line and it won't affect your initial aiming.

Try to get a signal for about 15 minutes. This is where the beer comes in. If you're having no success, stop. Crack open a beer and rejoice that you're on the road with lots of time on your hands so you don't really give a rip about TV anyway. Tell yourself TV is for losers. When the beer is gone try aiming some more (another 15 minutes max). Repaeat. I usually never have to go through more than three beers using this method.

Another tip is that I move the dish through 20 degrees or so of azimuth on one elevation setting and then do a tiny, tiny change in elevation before repeating another sweep of azimuth. Bracket the elevation angle with your tiny elevation changes.

Hope this helps. Once you've had success you'll get more faith in all the other variables and slowly you'll begin to get a feel for that 200 mile error up there.

One more tip. Keep Joanie inside during the entire process. It will improve your marriage. What I do is, I have Betty keep the beer flowing, that way she doesn't hear my cursing and I don't have anyone to yell at but myself.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:35 AM   #4
hookman
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If you use this website and put the complete address of the RV park you should see your site in the park and then you will see where you should be pointing. This is the best dish pointing site I have used, it covers all the satellites.
http://www.dishpointer.com/
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:32 AM   #5
SlickWillie
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Very good tutorial there, pbahlin.
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:48 AM   #6
Art-n-Marge
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Great job pbahlin. That's exactly what I do. Thanks for reminding to remove the satellite finder. That thing finds satellites all right, but never the right one!

About the post from Hookman. That site is RIGHT ON! The numbers it provides are way better than the campsite ones because those were for the old satellite systems before multiple satellites, HD and the like, so the campground documents are OLD and now mostly incorrect.

I use a small TV and get things working BEFORE connecting up the rig. It works out for me a lot better that way. Making sure it's perfectly level and oriented helps when the adjustments, otherwise you'll need more patient aiming. I can't tell you how many times I've found the wrong Dish Network satellite and think I'm good until I find I only have half the channels I pay for. Finding that correct satellite is critical.

If you can find a "neighbor" and provide that beer to the neighbor as appreciation for using their receiver, but make sure it's the same type and service to determine if the receiver is at fault. You might even be able to swap your questionable receiver into their working environment since their dish and wiring are already good.

I was able to get this crap to work with DirecTV when I used them and now Dish Network now, but with a stickhouse I just borrow already working equipment. I am good enough that I never have to call them mostly foreign, barely English-speaking, over apologetic, phone jockeys any more. Not being political, just factual. I don't like talking to people who I have to tell them how their stuff or their technology works.

Best of luck to you. I hope you keep us posted.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:31 AM   #7
hookman
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A satellite finder is used to fine tune your signal not totally find the satellites, you have to be able point the dish to the right bearing with a compass then use the satellite finder tune it in.
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Old 05-27-2011, 12:07 PM   #8
CasaDelSol
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Dave loved your post Paul!!!! We will return the Radio Shack "thingy" tomorrow. We are using the same setup that we used at home when we first got the RV kit. We have a small flat screen TV hooked up directly (thru the receiver) to the dish. No splitters, etc. It worked at home, but not on the road. We spent 2 hours in the hot Georgia sun with tech support...no luck. Now another 2 hours here in North Carolina...no luck. We have decided to save our sanity and wait until we arrive in Connecticut to try again. We will be in one place for 3 weeks. There are absolutely no trees or obstructions where we will be. Great advice on the elevation. It is hard to see those little notches on the stand...any suggestions to make them more visible? Thanks Hookman for the website! Will try that when we get to CT. Love you guys..you are the best!!
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Old 05-27-2011, 12:34 PM   #9
patbarton
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Paul,

I am thinking about buying a dish and tripod and was reading your "tutorial" verrry slowly (didn't want to lose something in a Blonde Moment), but when I got to "Tell yourself TV is for losers" I snorted a half glass of Diet Coke and had to go do something else for a while...
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Old 05-27-2011, 12:42 PM   #10
brenkco
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I couldn't agree more with pbahlin's post. I was having the same problems and frustration. Finally got a hold of the owners manual for the dish. The biggest mistake I was making was not spending the time to get the mast perfectly plumb. I was using a small bubble level that was just not doing the job. I replaced it with a small torpedo level so I could make several vertical readings on the mast of the tripod. Since then, I have had no problems and get setup very quickly.

Also, I noticed that the dish manual gave the settings via 3 digit zip codes. The elevation and skew were always different than the readings I found on the web. The old paper manual worked the best. BTW, the manual suggests setting the elevation and skew on the bench before mounting the dish on the mast. I sometimes have to fine tune the elevation after getting signal.

Good luck,

Ken

BTW, I am using a 3LNB dish for HD. I don't worry about 129, I get either the on the 119 or 110 1st and fine tune them.
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Old 05-27-2011, 02:01 PM   #11
HamRad
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The first two or three times we tried setting up our DTV system I was ready to kick it across the camp site! It was beyond frustrating! Now we can and often do just take a look at where some other DTV is already set up and try to duplicate that. Probably half the time we either hit the signal dead on or get very close to it. I know many of you swear by the "plumb" mast idea. Yes. It is good to have a nice plumb mast but it is not necessary. I guess my couple of years setting up a Hughes Net system took the "plumb" out of me. They had a system that allowed you to simply plug in the elevation, azimuth and skew. Once you entered the numbers you just used the level bubbles to get them zeroed out.

Of course there are then the times when the cable or the barrel connectors go bad! Now that is frustrating.

One thing we have never had (and we've had DTV for about 10+ years) and that is bad service. Even when we ended up with "user error" type problems the service reps at DTV have all been courteous and usually knowledgeable.

By the way Paul that is a nice posting. Thanks for sharing. Dennis
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Old 05-27-2011, 02:54 PM   #12
KiwiRVer
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If you have a smart phone (iPhone or Droid) then go to your app market and buy the app DishPointer. It is a little expensive (by phone app standards) @ $19.99 but is worth it as it uses the camera on your phone to show you exactly where the satellite is in respect to your local surroundings (don't get the cheaper satellite finder app - it doesn't work).

Just make sure you have the phone at the same level as the dish when you use it as it is quite surprising how much the satellite can "move" as you raise or lower your perspective.
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Old 05-27-2011, 03:24 PM   #13
cdaniels
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We tried to put a dish up for over a year.. then went out and bought the Winegard Automatic for $649.00. It does an excellant job getting a signal. Worth it's weight in gold! Is not HD but works for us.
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Old 05-27-2011, 03:59 PM   #14
exav8tr
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We have DirecTV HD with a DVR in the LR and a regular HD receiver in the BR. We use the Winegard Traveller, auto finding system (one button control). This is perfect in a perfect world. When we are under the trees we have to use our portable dish (kept under the bed and the front compartment). The last time we had to use it, I could not get a signal to save my life. Called a private sat guy out and he discovered the head (on the LNB end) had gone Tango Uniform, (maybe too much jostling in the front compartment). He replaced the head with one he had and it worked perfectly. Without moving the LNB arm he put mine back on and NO JOY. I'm not saying this is your problem, but other things do go wrong with these systems from time to time. Good luck with yours. BTW: There is a device called a "Birddog", (quite expensive, but well worth it if you move alot, I guess), and it tells you when you are locked on to each sat. If I didn't have the Winegard and was still travelling alot, I would have one....Check it out thru Google......
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:09 PM   #15
hookman
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If you have a computer just go to http://www.dishpointer.com/ it is free
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:46 PM   #16
Phil P
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Hi

The further north you go the harder it is to do this manually. I finally gave up and purchased a Wingard portable automatic dish.

Once you have the 5th wheel spotted and unhooked from the TV just hook up your satellite system then plug in your shore power and by the time you finish setting up you have television.

The only thing you have to know is which way is south. You need a fairly clear view of the southern sky.

As for Direct TV if you really think their service is bad try Dish. After having problems with dish we switched. The company we use locally came out and installed the system at the house and then free of charge they installed a second receiver in the RV. We pay a small fee for the second receiver and have no problem getting service. We do have to call Direct TV to change our location if we want to receive our local stations.

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Old 05-28-2011, 05:09 AM   #17
pbahlin
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When I first went on the road I had an older style 3 LNB dish (DirecTV) with three distinct horns and a very simple (crude) mount. When 'aiming' the dish, elevation adjustments were jumpy. I don't know any better way to describe it. You loosen the nuts and the dish flops down a few degrees in spite of your best efforts to hold it. Fine adjustments were mostly a haphazard affair. Likewise azimuth would jump around no matter what I did.

It was like the powder coat had teeth and gentle pressure would build up until you had an earthquake. The dish would jump about 5 degrees to a new set of teeth. I siliconed things. I greased things. I even sanded the mast. Nothing stopped the teeth from creating earthquakes.

Then in an unfortunate case of operator error I managed to ruin the LNB due to an extreme case of dish deceleration. I was at our winter digs at the time so I called DirecTV and they sent out an installer with a new dish. Turns out he wouldn't leave the dish without mounting it on a pipe sunk into concrete at my site. I patiently explained my lack of a crane and showed the gentleman my tripod. Well my pipe was a different size than his pipe whereupon he went off on me about how there was no way he could make that work.

I pleaded with him to just leave the pipe and dish and assured him I would figure out a way to make it work. He would not budge so I bid him goodbye. I was really bummed because the dish he brought had a single horn but by some magic it was also a 3 LNB job and it worked on DirecTV's latest sats (which are very close together - 99,101,103). The coolest part is that it came with a new style mount with coarse adjustments that you lock down, and then fine adjustments that you make by turning long bolts after the coarse nuts are tightened.

I immediately thought of my old (broken) dish with its powder coated teeth and wanted the new dish just for the mount. Bottom line, I went on the net and bought one for less than the DirecTV cost, got a full rebate from DirecTV too. Then with a hammer and a few old credit cards (for shims) I made the new dish work in my tripod.

Now I get on a signal using coarse aiming. Then I lock everything down, making sure I don't lose the signal in the process. Next, I bring the signal to max on all sats using the fine aiming screws.

I don't think DirecTV is serious about serving the RV community, beyond putting some nice marketing materials up on their web site. Certainly, the idea of mounting your mobile dish in concrete doesn't indicate a high degree of RVness, eh?

BTW: Have you noticed all the novel ways people anchor the dish to the ground? There are almost as many ways to do this as there are to 'stabilize' a rig. I've noticed all of these solutions are currently amateur hacks, i.e. nobody has come out with nifty lego blocks or deflatable plastic weights, or nifty tripods with adjustable feet. Seems like there's a whole market out there waiting to be tapped. Makes me go hmmmmmm...
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:59 PM   #18
noneck
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Finding Sat shouldn't be that difficult...
1. Let receiver tell you the pointing info for the location
2. Use a good pointing compass, away from magnetic things
3. Observe any other DirecTV setups to minimize errors
4. Trees, buildings...etc will make it impossible to get signal

First two images show my old dish single...last image is my current


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Old 05-31-2011, 11:18 AM   #19
kylec2
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by pbahlin

Try to get a signal for about 15 minutes. This is where the beer comes in. If you're having no success, stop. Crack open a beer and rejoice that you're on the road with lots of time on your hands so you don't really give a rip about TV anyway. Tell yourself TV is for losers. When the beer is gone try aiming some more (another 15 minutes max). Repaeat. I usually never have to go through more than three beers using this method.
I find this method works so well that I will sometimes fake not getting a signal just to get my bride to fetch beers for me.
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Old 05-31-2011, 12:50 PM   #20
pbahlin
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I never thought of that trick. Cool!

Have you noticed that aiming is a great way to meet your neighbors. It's a sure way to get four or five guys over to 'help'. You got me to thinking. What if you just set out a 12 pack of cold ones with a sign.

"FREE BEER FOR THE FIRST 95% SIGNAL"

You could set up the tripod and dish, then put up the sign and pretend to aim for a while. You want to work on it just long enough to attract some attention but not so long people actually start to talk to you. After a bit of struggle you kick dirt on the tripod, throw down your tools and stomp inside your rig. Have the DW ready with the beer and a hanky.

Dress her up in some old ratty duds and have her mess up her hair. You want her to look really sympathetic, like those panhandlers you see beside the road.
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