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06-19-2009, 09:34 AM
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#21
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: _
Posts: 5,238
M.O.C. #6337
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doohickeys, thingamabobs, doomafliggies
Goodness, great words (ooops, tropic drift).
Don't see or hear these much, you from the south??? Art-n-Marge. NOOO, not Southern California, I mean, like Georgia, North Carolina, Virginia????? That kinda south.
Gosh, I love those words.
Tropic drift ended, sorry, could not help my self!
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06-19-2009, 10:22 AM
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#22
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Haysville
Posts: 4,261
M.O.C. #3085
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Think of your slideout as a box sliding thru a rectangular hole in another box. The cylinder that moves the slide in and out is on one end. Picture pushing on the box on just one end ... you'll find the box wants to jamb in the rectangular hole in the larger box. That's why Lippert put the two gear racks connected by the square shaft underneath the slide ... it in effect applies the force of the cylinder evenly to both ends of the slide ... no jamming. If the bolt breaks, all that happens is the slide jams sideways and eventually stops moving ... nothing drops or falls away. You want a grade 8 bolt for the strength to hold both sides in sync as the cylinder does all the pushing ... the connecting shaft only keeps the alignment. Breaking these bolts is really rather rare ... just carry a couple of spares for those rare times. If the bolt does break, just use a crescent wrench or pipe wrench on the shaft to square up the slide to the sidewall and align the holes in the round shaft ... install a new bolt and you're goood to go.
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06-19-2009, 10:58 AM
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#23
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Jose
Posts: 200
M.O.C. #8250
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Thanks, The match box explanation was great. Headed over to the hardware store.
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06-19-2009, 12:20 PM
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#24
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sunshine
Posts: 1,445
M.O.C. #538
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I find it hard to believe that people are going out and buying spare bolts for one place. Am I the only one who carries a selection on bolts and such at all times? Buy all thread bolts several inches long any cut them off as needed. These are to get you out of a spot of trouble and don't have to be "pretty". JMHO
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06-20-2009, 06:59 AM
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#25
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Haysville
Posts: 4,261
M.O.C. #3085
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bigmurf:
You have a point, I'd imagine some of us carry a few extra fastners to get us by mini disasters ... but. The whole point of Dale's advise is to use a bolt that has the shank (unthreaded portion) long enough to pass completely thru the shaft. Any bolt in a shear application such as this will be weaker along the threads with a greater tendency to break. Look at preferred shear bolts in the driveshaft of a bushhog ... the shank on the bolt goes all the way thru the ujoint and input shaft of the gear box. It's just a case of the better bolt for the application.
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06-20-2009, 02:03 PM
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#26
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Murrieta
Posts: 5,816
M.O.C. #9257
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Yes, I carry spares of many sizes but of the ones I have had problems with. Since SEVERAL OTHERS have had this problem these will make my tool kit.
Since the new posts talk about 2" bolts should I first check to see if I have 2" bolts and not the shorter ones, to determine the odds of me having problems? Obviously I haven't crawled under there to take measurements yet, but the pictures provided help me know which ones you are all talking about. I suppose the extra length is a shanked part of the bolt? Maybe I shouldn't try so hard and just get 2", grade 8 bolts and if they are shanked, fine, otherwise don't worry about it.
(Mrs. CountryGuy, while I LIVE in So. Cal I was born in Texas. My Texan parents used words like that all the time even after we moved here. Since I heard these as a child and was told to believe everything my parents said, I use these words, too. Of course, there are many other words but that was enough to make my point.)
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06-20-2009, 02:18 PM
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#27
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pekin
Posts: 70
M.O.C. #9360
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More information than you need on understanding the difference between different grade bolts, how they are identified, and the relationship between tension and shear. High strength bolts, like grade 8, are primarily through hardened to a specific core hardness that is required for that grade. Surface hardness would be much harder. Bolted joint design is based on clamping force due to the torque applied to the bolt. The higher the grade the more torque can be applied to the bolt. Enough of this. I'm beginning to feel like I'm back at work in engineering at Caterpillar where all we used were grade 8 bolts.
http://www.rockcrawler.com/techrepor...ners/index.asp
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06-20-2009, 02:59 PM
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#28
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Friendship, Maine
Posts: 483
M.O.C. #6338
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This was a good discussion. I learned something.
Thanks,
Drew
__________________
2012 Big Sky 3400, now an SOB 5th wheel
2007 Montana 3075 previously
2015 GMC 3500 Dually
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06-20-2009, 05:44 PM
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#29
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pasco
Posts: 986
M.O.C. #5972
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by grooving grandpa
Mike, I looked "Cattywampus" up in the Scrabble Dictionary, but couldn't find it. When the bolt shears, do you mean the outside edge of the slide drops "droups" and also does the slide stop moving in or out.
Thanks Lou
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I am quite sure the Cattywampus is the correct spelling. It is possible the dictionary needs updating:>)
What happens when the bolt breaks is that end of the slide either does not extend or retract properly. If you are looking at the slide and the left bolt breaks, the right side will continue to extend/retract and the other end will essentially stop. It may be pulled a little by the other end, but nothing really significant.
In my case I was just starting to extend and since it was only out about 10-14 inches I was able to retract (read that assist by pushing from the outside) the slide back in and effect the repair.
I do not rent my wife out to help with this repair, however, I would be happy to help with whichever of my left hands that you would like.
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06-22-2009, 12:41 PM
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#30
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Goshen
Posts: 1,058
M.O.C. #2827
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dieselguy,
That is the fix! If you call Lippert and buy those bolts and lock nuts, they will send you 1/4-20 X 2' zinc coated grade 8 bolts with the nylok nuts.
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06-23-2009, 03:34 AM
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#31
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 608
M.O.C. #6162
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"Cattywampus" A highly technical term used to describe the work force at the Capital in Washington!
Or perhaps ( http://www.answers.com/topic/cattywampus)
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06-23-2009, 05:10 PM
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#32
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pasco
Posts: 986
M.O.C. #5972
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That's the one.
Actually, they both look pretty good to me.
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06-23-2009, 05:33 PM
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#33
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Jose
Posts: 200
M.O.C. #8250
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I thought I posted this question, but I don't see it, so will ask again. The hardware store did not have zinc coated nylok nuts. Will there be any chemical reaction if you use the zink coated bolt with a nickel ( I think that what it is) coated nylok nut.
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06-28-2009, 07:45 PM
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#34
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pasco
Posts: 986
M.O.C. #5972
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You won't believe this, the bolt on the other end of the slide broke. I was in Little America saturday, getting ready to head out and went to bring in the main slide and it went cattywampus on me again. This time my wife invited me to join her under the trailer, and I figured why not, after all she is in the shade and I am out here in the sun giving her directions. This time the head of the bolt and the nut sheared off, but the shaft of the bolt was still in the hole. Hmmmm, I said. Tried using a replacment bolt to move it out to no avail. Hmmmmm, I went again. My wife said don't do that. Then I tried using a small screwdrived and slip joint pliers to move it, also, to no avail. Then I remembered my center punch and hammer in the 5er. 15 minutes later we were back on the road - well a total of 30 minutes in total - well, what did you expect, I was helping! I think next time I replace one, I will simply replace both of them at the same time. Now I have to go to the hardware store to buy a couple more bolts and nuts, I only have two left in my parts supply.
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06-29-2009, 02:03 AM
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#35
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
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Something has to be causing this! Have you put any additional weight in the slide area? Have you checked to see if it is binding anywhere?
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06-29-2009, 02:57 AM
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#36
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fort Myers
Posts: 5,933
M.O.C. #4282
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Also possibilities:
1. When the bolt sheared on the one side, the other bolt took excessive torque stress, which led to a quick followup failure of that bolt, or
2. possibility of a shipment of defective bolts at the factory (low bid), or
3. exposure to some unusual extreme environmental factor(s) that caused a weakening, or
4. Tom's thought - that an unusual extreme physical stress event that took place on that slide at an earlier time.
That's all I can think of. I might vote for #1, though...
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06-29-2009, 04:09 AM
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#37
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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I agree with Dave, especially if the second bolt was also an original with threads inside the hole.
As noted in an earlier post, the weak point is the threads. Dale (MIMF) told us that the new bolts need to be long enough that nothing but shoulder is within the hole in the rod. Washers can be used to allow the nut to snug up.
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06-29-2009, 01:11 PM
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#38
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 560
M.O.C. #8818
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Kind of late in the discussion, but, the whole point of having shear pins(or bolts) is so that if too much force is put onto a system. The shear pin fails before some other expensive or difficult to replace component does, such as the square tube drive shaft twisting into a pretzel, breaking off of gear teeth, ripping the walls away from the floor, etc. As an integral step of the design and engineering stage of almost anything mechanical, there is some level of testing and failure analysis, and making changes to a portion of the design can lead to catastrophic results.
MIMF has said that Lippert seems to be supplying longer grade 8 bolts as replacements, so the shank portion is bearing at the shear line of the two parts. This would lead me to believe that everything is designed to still work as planned. Most likely, some accountant at Lippert said, "If we use these shorter bolts, we can save $200,000 over the life of this product, vs. using the longer bolt.".
I'm not so sure that replacing a shear pin with something stronger is necessarily a wise thing to do in other applications. It's kind of like replacing a 10 amp fuse that keeps blowing out with a 50 amp fuse. Yeah, sure, your fuse will quit blowing, but if there is some reason (like an electrical short) the 10 amp fuse was failing, you just might have all of your wiring catch fire if the system is designed to be loaded at 10 amps or less. "Bigger, stronger, more, faster." is not always the way to make things better.
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06-29-2009, 03:29 PM
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#39
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sunshine
Posts: 1,445
M.O.C. #538
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I can't believe that a Grade 8 bolt would be used as a shear pin. Most shear pins are a less hard bolt. JMHO
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06-29-2009, 03:36 PM
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#40
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Montana Fan
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ottawa Lake
Posts: 307
M.O.C. #321
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When we came back from camping memorial day weekend when I went to move the slide It did not go out strait and after some checking found that the bolt on the living room slide had sheared off. Glad I was at home and not on the road. went to the hardware store and picked up four new bolts and nuts replaced both on the living room slide and now carry a couple spares.
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