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Old 01-26-2017, 08:18 AM   #1
Travelling Three
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Wiring Diagram

How can I get a set of electrical wiring diagrams, 12vdc, 120vac and 220vac, for my 2016 3661RL Montana? I would like to rewire/relocate several light switches inside the unit.
 
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Old 01-26-2017, 09:19 AM   #2
BB_TX
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Best we have ever been able to figure out here is that they do not exist, except maybe in the hands of the techs wiring the units. And then probably schematics rather than wiring diagrams. And schematics do not help a whole lot if you are trying to figure out exactly how something is wired.

When we bought our trailer new, we had a wiring problem in the living room. Took the techs a while to figure out that our living room outlets and refrigerator was wired to our ceiling fan switch. Fan on/refrigerator and outlets worked. Fan off/refrigerator and outlets did not work.

I asked the service manager if he could get me a copy of the wiring diagrams. He contacted Keystone and they said they could not supply wiring diagrams even to the service manager. Go figure.
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Old 01-26-2017, 09:45 AM   #3
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This has always been an issue. The best I could do was take the factory tour several years in a row, at the national Rally, and work from what seemed to be their normal way of doing things.
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Old 01-26-2017, 10:31 AM   #4
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Houses don't have a wiring diagram and most campers don't either. To have them would serve to drive up cost. The person doing the wiring would haft to get the prints out and make sure he went by them which would only slow things down. I own a machine shop, make hundreds of parts dozens of products and don't have one blueprint in the shop, or any thing else to go buy except the parts we made the last time. We never make bad parts. Having prints would do for us what do for us what they would do for Montana slow things down.
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Old 01-26-2017, 03:22 PM   #5
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Lynwood

As I have pointed out to you before you made your Blue print when you wrote the program for the CNC machines you use hardly a comparison.

As for wiring diagrams my house came with one and one must be provided to the building and planning department in order to obtain a building permit.

I would also say Keystone had to have one to obtain the RVIA medallion that you see on the side of the trailer. However it is obvious no one on the production line has access to them either.

For this reason Keystone could not release them to the public or they would go broke defending the law suits.

So to answer to OP question the only wire diagrams we have been able to get are the TV coax cable schematic and nothing else. As someone else pointed out a schematic doesn’t give you locations of the wires or receptacles.

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Old 01-28-2017, 10:02 AM   #6
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Prepare to be shocked when you remove wall in pass through or drop bottom to follow stuff. Also be prepared to get lots of crap falling on you, like sawdust, dropped parts, etc. You will be dressing up lots of wires just thrown into the frame area.
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Old 01-28-2017, 12:38 PM   #7
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Keystone is not "owner friendly" on this topic. Bought a Montana which was prepped for washer dryer but they wouldn't tell me where things(plumbing,electrical ) were routed so we wouldn't hit anything when drilling for the dryer vent. One time when we were far away from our unit I called to find out the measurement on a living room window. I gave them the model and vin and they couldn't tell me that. Love our Montana but we had a Jayco Eagle and they could and did provide me anything and everything about the unit.
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Old 01-29-2017, 02:03 AM   #8
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A RV manufacturer refusing to provide detailed drawings of electrical, plumbing, and everything else may not be the "norm". My MH forum indicated their customer service would provide such drawing. I called them and after providing proof that I owned the exact unit I was requesting information on I received numerous detailed drawings emailed to me. A few weeks later I had my convenience center apart, correcting a small leak, and had a question about a 4-way water valve. It looked to me like it had been plumbed wrong. While sitting in front of my dismantled plumbing project I called customer service. They pulled up a more detailed schematic drawing of just my convenience center plumbing and sent it to my I-phone. The whole process took a few minutes.

Now many of us in the years past have blamed parent company Thor for issues on our Montana fivers. My MH is a Thor.

PhilP is right. Your SticknBrick certainly had drawings of everything when it was constructed, actually there were probably 8 to 10 copies originally if it was built in the past 20 years. Keystone has the drawings. They either feel it is too expensive to provide them or they don't feel it is that important. If there was one single issue I would be talking to a Keystone representative about at a rally it would be their failure to provide these types of drawings to owners.
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Old 01-29-2017, 05:00 AM   #9
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My house didn't have prints for the electrical. I know because I wired it myself. A friend got the permit and I did the work.
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Old 01-30-2017, 12:57 AM   #10
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Can't really debate what drawings contractors are required to produce or not produce when building a home. I know in Illinois it depends on what city and/or county you are in that determines what additional drawings besides regular blueprints are required for permits. In Florida I had to submit a drawing in order to get an approved back yard shed put in place. The permit was approved, posted on my property, and two inspections completed. This all varies in different parts of the county just as much as the weather does.

But I am pretty sure that Keystone has drawings of all the systems in each of their models. For whatever reason they just are not sharing them with owners.
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Old 01-30-2017, 04:08 AM   #11
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Too much info can be dangerous in hands that are not properly trained.

I know this does not relate exactly to the subject at hand but here goes...

Working on planes in the Navy, operators have flowcharts for troubleshooting. They find the bad box and replace the box. A different level of technician actually repairs the box. That technician has the schematics for the box. Overhauls and scheduled rework of the entire plane gets engineers involved who have schematics of everything right down to each rivet.

We are the operators and have limited access to "flowcharts". The service department can do repairs and has access to a different level of schematics. If they can't do the repair, it then goes to the manufacturer who has all the paperwork, designers, engineers, etc.
Look at golfmedik's 19 page thread and you will see what I mean.

For those of us that are handy, and want to put our own personal stamp on our RVs, the lack of info from the manufacturer can be very frustrating. Perhaps their lack of disclosure is a warranty issue, legal issue or even job security. Who knows. We all must endeavor to preserve.
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Old 01-30-2017, 01:41 PM   #12
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Hi JABURKHOLDER

The Navy has their ways but when I work on 15 passenger jets for civilian use the manufacturer will furnish all of the drawings you could possible want FOR A PRICE. The black boxes are different because of the equipment required to work on them I can still get the schematics but by regulation I am not allowed to open one. However when I have one that is condemned as to old to repair or uneconomic to repair I can open it if for no other reason than to see how it is wired and how it works but I am not allowed to us it in aircraft again.

Now I have a 500KW standby generator. The manufacturer has configured this tier 4 diesel engine to comply with government regulations. The communications setup to diagnose and repair both the engine and generator are proprietary and the manufacturer will not sell it to anyone. They want $10,000 to send 2 technicians out to tell us what is wrong with it a try to repair it. I consider this extortion!

The unit went on a semi yesterday and a new unit from different company is being installed. This new unit is a diesel tier 4 compliant and uses OBD II communications for trouble shooting and repair. Any diesel mechanic with a $300 scanner can work on this new unit.

I don’t call this job security I call it what it is extortion.

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