Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > MOC Technical Forums > Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-20-2021, 06:23 PM   #1
Darval
Established Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 13
M.O.C. #28026
Darco under slide fraying and ripping

I have a 2019 Montana 330rl HC and large living/dinning slide, the darco is fraying and ripping bottom of slide where it connects to rollers. I was thinking of putting some sheet metal the length of slide and 6" wide to cover and for the only 2 rollers on the slide. I'm worried the sheet metal will get caught up on wear bar when I bring slide in. Any recommendations ?
 
Darval is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2021, 07:59 AM   #2
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
Slide is not properly adjusted.
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2021, 08:53 AM   #3
Ram Montana High Country
Montana Master
 
Ram Montana High Country's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: POINTBLANK
Posts: 1,619
M.O.C. #19944
Do yourself a favor - take a pic showing damage and email to Keystone Customer service. They need to hear from us. How many rollers are under that slide?
__________________
RAM 16' DRW 3500 Crew LB / 2020 373RD HC
MOPEKA Tank Monitor / Furrion Side&Rear Cameras
Slide Toppers / EMS-HW50C / Sailun 85's
3rd AC / Dometic 320
Ram Montana High Country is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2021, 09:33 AM   #4
Darval
Established Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 13
M.O.C. #28026
I talked to Keystone and their fix was to put darco tape on it. I have also talked with a Rv repair shop and I'm going to put some metal glides on bottom of slide to Eliminate fray. Of course I'm just out of warranty.
Darval is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 07:56 AM   #5
ChuckS
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Mountain Home
Posts: 629
M.O.C. #20949
Instead of using metal to cover the frayed Darco I would take a long hard look at UHMW as your repair choice.. It is very slick, excellent weight load dispersion and is very easy to work with...

I've attached tow images of frayed Darco on the bottom of my hydraulic slide outs... Tape of any kind on these slides wont work because the Darco rides up onto a frame mounted wear bar that runs from end to end..

The Tape would just roll up and tear the Darco even more when it tries to ramp up onto the wear bars...

You have rollers so your repair options have some leeway but UHMW is what I would give serious consideration to..

Attached images show my frayed Darco and repair.. images form a PDF I wrote outlining the repair step by step
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot (93).png
Views:	474
Size:	490.1 KB
ID:	8973   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot (94).png
Views:	433
Size:	314.8 KB
ID:	8974  
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 09:36 AM   #6
Darval
Established Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 13
M.O.C. #28026
Chucks, thank you for your suggestion. Is that a hard plastic you put on then ? I have a roller it has to go through then the bend on the slide at the wear bar. I'm worried the screws and what ever I use will get hung up on the friction bar. Have you had any issues with that.
Darval is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 09:56 AM   #7
ChuckS
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Mountain Home
Posts: 629
M.O.C. #20949
This link will give you a good overview of what UHMW is.....

https://www.interstateplastics.com/U...c&withinsite=1

The screws I chose after a lot of thought and looking at other OPs that had done similar repairs with UHMW are #10 SS wood screws 3/4 long... good grip strength and not too long to protrude thru flooring on top side

my hydraulic slide outs actually ramp up and onto a double ramp wear bar underneath the slide floor mounted inside the slide out cutout....

Image of the double wear bar.... I have seen NO evidence after at least 50 cycles in and out now with this slide as far as the UHMW strip snagging on anything... the screws were installed each with a dap of proflex on the threads to add a bit of insurance that screws would not back off...

the screw heads are countersunk about 1/32 below the surface of the UHMW.. and remember this material is ONLY .125 thick... I did not need to do any vertical adjustments to slide .. closes nice and tight on outside and inside..
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot (95).png
Views:	264
Size:	212.3 KB
ID:	8975  
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 10:51 AM   #8
Darval
Established Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 13
M.O.C. #28026
ChuckS

I like your idea of using the plastic instead of sheet metal, my last question is my slide floor has a bend upwards in it. Would you take the UHMW up to the bend and bend it over the tip. I will try to attach a diagram. The dealer I talked to suggested using sikaflex instead of screws, what's your thought. ? I really appreciate your help thank you
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20210424_103938.jpg
Views:	146
Size:	51.0 KB
ID:	8976  
Darval is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 11:57 AM   #9
ChuckS
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Mountain Home
Posts: 629
M.O.C. #20949
Your roller and wear bar setup is similar to my dual wear bar... there is a small wear bar strip that can be seen from under the slide out and then further up inside is a larger and wider ramp the slide bottom rides up onto.. That is why the initial slide out motion is always a tip up to get up onto the wear bars and then levels out as it slides in..

I cut a 37 degree bevel on the front of my UHMW strip so that it has a ramp up area to slide up onto the two wear bars... I initially used 45 degrees and it was good but I had a slight bump as the UHMW beveled edge met with the wear bar.. I cut the bevel to 37 degrees and liked the result much better.. very little bump when slide initially rides up onto wear bar.. If I have to do the other main slide out ( which I will ) I am going to make the bevel at 17 degrees with the though being this will give the UHMW strip and even less acute of an angle to ramp up over the wear bar..

ALSO... I wouldn't consider anything but some sort of screws to attach whatever you decide to use for the repair.. Why? Anything that is on top of that Darco as it rides up onto that wear bar in your diagram is GONNA WANT TO bunch up and if it does it will tear and shred that Darco...

If you only had rollers and not the wear bar then MAYBE you could get away with some sort of glue...

my repair was based on several months of looking at repairs other OPs had tried, what sort of results they had, etc...

When the slide out I did the repair on comes in that leading edge ramps up over the outside and inside wear bars and then glides over the top of both a carpeted surface and linoleum surface.. After over 50 cycles there is NO signs of marks on the carpet or linoleum flooring...

There are some posts on this group that I saw with pics of repairs they used.. I gleamed as much info from these repairs and other groups to try and formulate my repair

The image with the white UHMW is from a post I saw on this group.. The OP did a nice job with his repair and he opted to slightly raise the slideout and work his material under the slide onto wear bar and then secure..

I chose to try and bevel that leading edge to achieve the same results without lifting the slide.. Lifting the slide a 1/2 inch is not a big deal to gain access to work something underneath...

My concern was I wanted that leading edge secured with screws so that I knew it couldnt snag on something... My first screws from the beveled edge securing the strip the to slide bottom are 1 1/2 inches from the beveled edge..

The beveled edge stays flat at all times against the slide bottom when it ramps up over the wear bar and slides in and onto main wear bar ramp...

Image of an OPs repair from this group and then two of my repair to give you a better idea on my thought process

NOTE.. my pics do not show ALL the screws I installed on the UHMW strip.. THis was my initial rough install to test the theory.. I have screws spaced about every 4 to 5 inches on both edges and countersunk.. THis keeps the UHMW strip tight and flat.. I also used a bead of proflex on the under side all around the edges before installing strip so that I would have a good moisture barrier to prevent water from wicking under the UHMW strip
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot (97).png
Views:	78
Size:	204.5 KB
ID:	8977   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot (96).png
Views:	64
Size:	647.2 KB
ID:	8978   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot (98).png
Views:	104
Size:	380.7 KB
ID:	8979  
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 12:05 PM   #10
ChuckS
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Mountain Home
Posts: 629
M.O.C. #20949
AND I am sure there are some that are shaking their heads at the repair I formulated to fix my worn Darco covering and that's ok.. I had two options..
1. Take somewhere and pay $$$$ for new Darco install and have the RV tied up for who knows how long..
2. Apply my mechanical abilities with what I could gleam from other OPs and repair myself...

I repair everything on my RVs and have for over 40 years... every once in a while the repair takes more than one attempt but it keeps my RVs out of the repair centers and cash in the pockets...
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 12:42 PM   #11
ChuckS
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Mountain Home
Posts: 629
M.O.C. #20949
Here is a pic from inside and the circled item shows both the inner and outer wear bars the bottom of the slide Ramos up onto.. fork the outside you can only see the small wear strip to the left of the pic.. the slide ramps up initially onto this and then ramps onto the much larger inner wear bar strip

To far right of pics you can see the edge of the slide out Darco and how it glides over the carpet.the UHMW strip glides right over the carpet and there are no snags, etc
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	174D87F3-CA1D-4F9D-8E93-1348566E4354.jpg
Views:	146
Size:	193.1 KB
ID:	8983  
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 12:59 PM   #12
Darval
Established Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 13
M.O.C. #28026
ChuckS
Tha k you it is very helpful. Changes my entire thought of what I'm going to do. I am going to look into uhmw instead of galvanized metal. Thank you.
Darval is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 01:11 PM   #13
hemiallen
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Lodi
Posts: 212
M.O.C. #28242
Great images and explanation Chuck.




Allen
__________________
Old rig: 2005 Ram QC 1500 5.7- Rockwood 8288 4- 6v batteries
New rig: 2016 Ram 25004x4 QC LB & 3120rl legacy-solarflex 300w and 400Ah Battleborn
hemiallen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 01:20 PM   #14
ChuckS
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Mountain Home
Posts: 629
M.O.C. #20949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darval View Post
ChuckS
Tha k you it is very helpful. Changes my entire thought of what I'm going to do. I am going to look into uhmw instead of galvanized metal. Thank you.
I would seek the opinions from some of the OPs on here that are much more experienced than I... but to me tape over the Darco is a total waste and a stop gap repair at best. if it evens holds...

UHMW can be bought in various sizes and thicknesses... I opted for the the .0125 thick stuff because I wanted the least amount of vertical height deflection when slide out ramps up on the wear bars...

I also wanted black to try and blend the repair in better with the Darco fabric.. I ordered a piece that was 12"x36"x .0125 and ripped it into four equal strips (minus saw blade kerf cut)... This stuff cuts like butter and does not melt like plastic would...

The bevel angle I cut on the leading edge was done with a miter saw and it cut as smooth as glass...

I drilled the initial attach screw holes and counter sunk on the work bench and then temp installed to see if the concept would work

After successful test I then removed strip and drilled additional holes and counter sunk them on the bench... Really would be a bear to do the additional countersinking with strip attached and working upside down...

anyways ... you have some thoughts to work out and perhaps others with ten times my ability and experience will chime in and you can get a really good repair action plan....

Please post whatever your final results and decisions turned out to be .. it will help others down the road when they have the same issues with the Darco
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 01:25 PM   #15
ChuckS
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Mountain Home
Posts: 629
M.O.C. #20949
NOTE.. in my case the Darco frayed damage was limited to the outer edges.. about 1 to two inches wide...

I measured the depth of the slide when extended and a 36" long piece x 2.5 inches width was what I needed to cover the outer edge on front and back of slide floor...

There is no damage anywhere else and the slide out is perfectly adjusted ( by me) ... ALso there is noting under the edge of the slide out such as a staple, screw, rock etc that caused the wear... It has been, after all 7 years of use..

I hunted around looking for black UHMW and of all places I looked this fella had just what I needed at a fair price.. I didnt need a full sheet of the stuff

https://www.ebay.com/itm/11320615491...75.c101224.m-1
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2021, 07:30 AM   #16
psomers
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Northport
Posts: 622
M.O.C. #12724
I don't have any frayed darco now but will keep this thread in case I do. Chuck I think your choice of repair is a good one. Very good explanation. I do have one question concerning your post #9. The fellow that used the white UHMW and slide it between slide bottom and wear strip, wouldn't that cause the slide to not be level with floor and be high the thickness of the UHMW?
__________________

Paul Northport,AL W4XH
2013 358 RLT Mountaineer
2008 Silverado Duramax
psomers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2021, 07:56 AM   #17
ChuckS
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Mountain Home
Posts: 629
M.O.C. #20949
Quote:
Originally Posted by psomers View Post
I don't have any frayed darco now but will keep this thread in case I do. Chuck I think your choice of repair is a good one. Very good explanation. I do have one question concerning your post #9. The fellow that used the white UHMW and slide it between slide bottom and wear strip, wouldn't that cause the slide to not be level with floor and be high the thickness of the UHMW?
Nope... the thickness of the UHMW ( depending on what a fella chooses ) isnt gonna amount to much... at .0125 (1/8) thickness it made zero difference on my slide out Darco bottom with the slide out slightly pulled in and then viewing across the bottom edge where Darco meets wear bar..

The Darco was nice and flat all across .. The OP that used the white material remarked about this in his post as some were concerned there would be a gap letting air and such come in under the surface... it wasnt an issue.

In my case since my ONLY wear on the Darco is at the outer edges ( about 1 1/2 inches width and not from end to end I only repaired this area.. the rest of the Darco covering shows no evidence of wear

And this slide.. as is the other main hydraulic slide is adjusted perfectly... THe ear occurred over a period of 7 years of use...

If I have additional wear in the center, etc I would have no second thoughts about installing another strip of UHMW as I did for the edge wear to cover and prevent further damage..

Ideally a full strip of UHMW on the bottom would be just super... you would never have wear issues but the OEM builders aren't gonna do this
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2021, 10:48 AM   #18
ChuckS
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Mountain Home
Posts: 629
M.O.C. #20949
If anyone on this group would like the PDF I wrote regarding my repair of the Darco with HUMW PM me and I will email it to you.. The file is about 5.8mb in size with a lot of pics and more info on steps I used to do this repair.. The info might give someone else a better idea to improve improve what I have done
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2021, 02:22 PM   #19
bcrvman
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Qualicum Beach
Posts: 552
M.O.C. #26399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darval View Post
I have a 2019 Montana 330rl HC and large living/dinning slide, the darco is fraying and ripping bottom of slide where it connects to rollers. I was thinking of putting some sheet metal the length of slide and 6" wide to cover and for the only 2 rollers on the slide. I'm worried the sheet metal will get caught up on wear bar when I bring slide in. Any recommendations ?
UHMW plastic is the answer. That is what my Montana has. The problem is usually caused by screw heads sticking out, try using a scope to see inside to see where the problem is.
__________________
2018 Keystone Montana 3811MS
2017 Ford F450 diesel dually
600AH Battle Born Lithium Batteries, 1,080 watts solar
3,000 watt hybrid inverter with 120A charger
bcrvman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2021, 02:58 PM   #20
tom woodward
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Granbury
Posts: 51
M.O.C. #25118
Darco repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
If anyone on this group would like the PDF I wrote regarding my repair of the Darco with HUMW PM me and I will email it to you.. The file is about 5.8mb in size with a lot of pics and more info on steps I used to do this repair.. The info might give someone else a better idea to improve improve what I have done
Chuck,
after paying 5K to have my slides aligned the dark started to tear almost immediately. could you send me your PDF file. Sounds Like a good fix;
Send to; Buhwana@charter.net

Tom
tom woodward is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.