Towing in wind stability - Montana Owners Club

Dam Worker · 09-07-2020, 06:49 PM

After enjoying a nice LaborDay vacation at Lincoln City Oregon we had to pack up the Montana and head back to Tri-Cities Washington (Eastern Washington). Not a terrible trip but I did miss my I-84 turnoff from the 205 so I did get to go into Portland even though I was trying to avoid that. Over all pretty decent driving except my exit issue until about Hood River. That is when the driving became a lot more intense. The wind blows hard out of the west through the Columbia River Gorge pretty much 95/98 percent of the time. Unfortunately today was the exception due to a red flag warning put out by the weather association. Due to all the Forrest Fires we had a lot of smoke causing visibility issues and a very strong crosswind blowing from the north east. I was very happy that I had a fifth wheel and a dually with the extremely high winds we were encountering. Most all travel trailers and SRW towed fifth wheels were wobbling badly even with reduced speeds. Most DRW trucks towing both fivers and bumper pull units seemed to be able to handle the wind much better than the SRW tow vehicles and the motorhomes towing trailers or vehicles were basically wrecks waiting to happen. The big trucks were also having some wind issues. I was very happy to pull into the homestead this afternoon and get out of the truck. Some areas closer to home had dust from the farmers field reducing speeds to 20/30 mph on I-182. Major wrecks on I-90 and highway 395 just west and southwest of Spokane. One daughter and her boyfriend still stranded in Ritzville due to closed roads due to multiple vehicle wrecks from poor visibility and high winds.

Sorry for the long post but just a reminder to drive safe and be wary of nasty road conditions due to Mother Nature.

Happy and Safe roads to you.
Tom

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Montana Man · 09-07-2020, 07:02 PM

Good to hear you had safe travels. I suppose the gist of the story was how more stable DRW trucks are over SWW trucks. There is some factuality to that opinion. However, I wouldn't back down from any crosswind with my setup. Stability is more dependent upon proper weight management and driving ability than how many tires are on the ground. We've been through Montana, Wyoming, Tehachappi, etc. and never once felt we were in danger in these notoriously windy areas. Driving carefully is our best defense when driving in adverse conditions.

Dam Worker · 09-07-2020, 07:17 PM

Montana Man you would be correct. I have towed with both SRW and DRW in tight twisty mountain passes and more extreme wind than I care to remember. When My wife and I fully retire We will have more ability to just stay put an extra day or two to avoid driving in high winds. Today’s highest winds were supposed to be in the 50 mph plus category. I always felt pretty good with my smaller Vanguard fiver but not the heavier and longer Montana. Guaranteed no comparison with the DRW truck compared to my old SRW truck or even the 2017 SRW F-350 loaner truck. I am glad you have had great luck with yours. I definitely agree with your driving defensively in adverse conditions statement. I have pulled through Montana and Wyoming also, yep lots of wind but not really the same as what we and everyone else on the road were being subjected too.

Happy and safe roads to you.

Tom Marty

mtlakejim · 09-07-2020, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montana Man

Good to hear you had safe travels. I suppose the gist of the story was how more stable DRW trucks are over SWW trucks. There is some factuality to that opinion. However, I wouldn't back down from any crosswind with my setup. Stability is more dependent upon proper weight management and driving ability than how many tires are on the ground. We've been through Montana, Wyoming, Tehachappi, etc. and never once felt we were in danger in these notoriously windy areas. Driving carefully is our best defense when driving in adverse conditions.

I wouldn't discount the difference in stability SRW vs DRW. I have owned and driven BOTH and there is a BIG difference!!!

Yes slowing down in adverse weather is important but so is having the right tool for the job!!

Montana Man · 09-07-2020, 09:36 PM

Perhaps I better not try a drw, I might like it then I'd want one!

**DQDick** · 09-08-2020, 06:09 AM

IMHO there really isn't much difference until you get into a cross wind that I wouldn't have towed in if it had been forecast. As a full timer, I have the luxury to be able to stay put if weather comes up, but regardless of the care you take you can still get caught on occasions. That's when I appreciate the DRW.

bshgto · 09-08-2020, 06:24 AM

[QUOTE=Montana Man;1197370]Perhaps I better not try a drw, I might like it then I'd want one![/QUOTE

One emergency evasive maneuver at speed convinced me that a dually when towing heavy was the right decision. Nobody ever talks about that aspect between DRW and a SRW. Given the clowns on the road nowa days buzzing around you in their roller skate cars, it`s the only way.

DutchmenSport · 09-08-2020, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bshgto

...

One emergency evasive maneuver at speed convinced me that a dually when towing heavy was the right decision. ...

You must have seen the statement I made years ago, or at least somehow instinctively knew it:

“You really need to think in terms of what is the ultimate extreme usage you'll be experiencing with your tow vehicle, not what is the lightest usage and hope it's OK when the extreme happens."

For the OP:
I'm glad you had safe travels and were able to keep complete control of your rig under difficult situations. You have offered good advise for everyone here!

richfaa · 09-08-2020, 08:35 AM

With our 14 3402 Montana we are essentially pulling a 40 foot billboard we were once pushed across 3 lanes of interstate . We do not tow in high winds when we see the 18 wheelers getting off the road we follow.

twindman · 09-08-2020, 09:53 AM

I have a question for dually owners. You state that for emergency situations, the dually is better. So if you have to swerve to avoid someone/thing how does it help? The truck will remain stable, but the rig is still swerving also and will just as easily tip over, right?

Dam Worker · 09-08-2020, 11:28 AM

As stated by some people, the best way to be careful in high crosswinds is to stay off the roads and I agree. For those that are retired it is much easier to do that very thing. For the ones that have a schedule that requires them to be back home or wherever they need to be it creates a Much more difficult and stressful drive. There were trucks parked along side of the freeway exits and entrances and also some fighting the elements too. Maybe I should have chosen to stay off the roads or at least pulled over halfway through our trip once we encountered the high winds, unfortunately it is quite a remote area where the winds were extremely bad. Next year I will have more flexibility in my schedule although we will still have my wife’s schedule to worry about.
As bad as it was I still think my setup was handling the conditions better than most. Trucks hauling rebar and other heavy weight items with very little surface area were obviously the most secure rigs on the road. I really think due to the COVID-19 issue and the record amount of RV’s being sold this year contributed to some of the scary towing situations. I am sure that there was a lot of inexperienced RV drivers out on the roads.

Happy and safe roads to you.

Tom Marty

mtlakejim · 09-08-2020, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twindman

I have a question for dually owners. You state that for emergency situations, the dually is better. So if you have to swerve to avoid someone/thing how does it help? The truck will remain stable, but the rig is still swerving also and will just as easily tip over, right?

Oh lord its just common sense. Stand with your feet together and have someone push your shoulder hard, you will be lucky not to fall down. Then stand with your feet apart and have them do it again. You will barely budge.

Its just basic physics. A wider stance is more stable. Duallies have a wider stance and more rubber on the road. They are by design a more stable tow package. Granted EVERYTHING has limits.

In order to really understand the difference you have to experience it firsthand. If you haven't owned and driven both you don't know. I can attest that I was absolutely amazed at the difference between our old 3/4 SRW and our 1 ton dually. We hadn't driven 30 miles down the road and the wife was like WOW this feels a LOT safer!!!

Since the truck is more stable it helps control the trailer more easily. The two are linked together and while the trailer will act on it's own to a degree, a truck that is more stable has a better chance of controlling the trailer. Granted you can still push things too far.

jetskier · 09-08-2020, 05:56 PM

If you want to further improve lateral stability during winds, lowering the application of the lateral load helps as well. When I replaced the factory 5th wheel pin box with the Goosebox, I don't notice the crosswinds as much. The B&W companion was about 16.5" from the base of the bed to the plate, whereas the goose ball is only about 3-3.5" to the center of the ball. The wind force is the same, but there's a large reduction in overturning moments applied to the tow vehicle. This reduces the vertical component of the wind force applied to the tires.

FloridaFiver · 09-09-2020, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetskier

If you want to further improve lateral stability during winds, lowering the application of the lateral load helps as well. When I replaced the factory 5th wheel pin box with the Goosebox, I don't notice the crosswinds as much. The B&W companion was about 16.5" from the base of the bed to the plate, whereas the goose ball is only about 3-3.5" to the center of the ball. The wind force is the same, but there's a large reduction in overturning moments applied to the tow vehicle. This reduces the vertical component of the wind force applied to the tires.

This is an advantage provided by the goose box I had not considered. It makes good logical sense to me how this may be realized during towing in high wind conditions due to the reduced leverage the lower connection point offers.

Thanks for posting this

R.S.O'Donnell · 09-09-2020, 11:25 AM

Talk about timing... in the news today. If it gets really angry we definitely pull over and ride it out. If bad enough we point our rig into the wind.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/0...ource-orig.cnn

twindman · 09-09-2020, 01:48 PM

I can see how a dually will FEEL safer, but is the trailer really that much safer? I understand the two are joined, but the hitch is not going to keep a trailer upright, in my opinion. I can also see how the maneuverability will be better in a crunch.

jetskier · 09-09-2020, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twindman

I can see how a dually will FEEL safer, but is the trailer really that much safer? I understand the two are joined, but the hitch is not going to keep a trailer upright, in my opinion. I can also see how the maneuverability will be better in a crunch.

That's true, the trailer "feels" the same wind load no matter what. Most pickup fifth wheel heads pivot side-to-side and offer no rotational support until they hit the limiters. If you hit those limiters on the highway with a cross wind, the trailer is on its way over and it's too late. The DRW trucks will have less side-to-side roll (sum of deflection from tire sidewalls, spring deflection, sway bar stiffness and frame twist) when a lateral load is applied to the hitch. The SRW will be less stiff on all those factors in additional to the reduced width. The rolling and yaw (rear whip) affect is what we feel during a gust of wind and the DRW will have a more solid feel.

klewis6787 · 09-09-2020, 02:26 PM

We just came back Monday during large wind storm in Washington state with our 41.5 ft. long fifth wheel and the cross winds did not make us feel unsafe in any way but with our trailer would be overloaded on a SRW truck but have been in several windy areas and it was very stable for the size of our trailer.

Dam Worker · 09-09-2020, 07:00 PM

I will chime in again to provide what I saw while pulling in severe side winds. My trailer was quite stable, very little to no side to side wobble. Yes it was leaning more than just the regular camber of the road. Overall I would say it was quite stable. Other rigs had a snakelike action going down the road. For trailers I would say that most of the bumper pull rigs were having the worst of it except those being pulled by DRW trucks. Motor homes pulling a towable vehicle or even worse a large trailer were not staying in their lanes. The fifth wheels were probably the best at having vehicles towing fairly straight. Even they had issues when being passed or passing other vehicles. The DRW tow vehicles had minimum wiggle although as stated earlier the fivers were leaning more than normal.

Tom Marty

mtlakejim · 09-09-2020, 07:46 PM

As I mentioned earlier, everything has it's limits. But certainly having a more stable tow vehicle helps you control the trailer as well. That being said, it can also lead to a false sense of security. Don't let that happen pull over and point the nose into the wind if you can!

There is one thing you can do that will help in a heavy wind: add water to the fresh water tank! That will improve your center of gravity significantly. We always kept our tanks full at the RV park we were at in Southern New Mexico. The winds there were really bad several times a year. If I had stayed there much longer I would have added anchor cables attached to the frame too!

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