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Old 02-05-2020, 05:10 PM   #1
harris71
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Puzzling electrical problem in 5’er

I’ll preface this with my knowledge level of electrical is advanced, but not quite electrician caliber. I brought my 2013 3100RL home from the storage lot to do some maintenance this week. I plugged it in to a receptacle in my garage using the 50 to 30 pigtail and a 30 to 15 adapter (as has been done many times before, as recently as November). Lights inside worked fine but when I brought my shopvac in to do some cleaning, I plugged it into one of the camper’s 110v receptacles and it tripped the garage GFCI (not the circuit breaker). I reset it, tried again and the same result. Tried a different receptacle in the camper; tripped also. Plugging the shopvac directly into said garage GFCI and it worked fine. I tested voltage in the camper receptacles with a multi-meter and wiring with a 3 prong analyzer and everything reads fine. The TV in the rig came on and works, as did the microwave. I plugged in a 2 amp battery charger and it worked OK. Then tried a hair dryer, it worked. Turned on the fridge (RV type, not residential) and the GFCI tripped. I tried another GFCI (fairly new) on a different circuit and it also tripped, so it’s not the GFCI receptacle.

Online searches indicate a GFCI can also trip under load, which leaves me to believe there is some small to medium call for a/c current from the RV that is new (a minor short?). I took the cover off the breaker panel and checked for loose connections. I searched under the kitchen sink, front and side storage compartments for any evidence of critters….. nothing.

I’m tossing it out to the Forum for any insight/assistance. I’m hoping to avoid taking it to a dealer/repair shop at $125/hour for days of diagnosis. Thanks.
 
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Old 02-05-2020, 06:07 PM   #2
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Both of the things that are causing the problem are big draw items could the problem be caused when their draw is added to the converter (big draw) and the other minor phantom draw items?
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Old 02-05-2020, 06:31 PM   #3
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Here is some interesting reading. Scroll down to “What is nuisance tripping of a GFCI?”.

https://safeelectricity.org/ground-f...rupters-gfcis/
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:10 PM   #4
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You obviously have some draw in the RV, then like every electric motor the start up demand spikes thus tripping your GFI. 15 Amp at 120v does not go very far if you battery charger is on, refer is on or any number of load combinations.

Just like your A/C it requires more than 3200W to start but 1500w or under to run, your wet vac is doing similar just on a smaller scale. If possible look to see if you are using a 15amp converter plug may go to 20amp and check conductor size and see if you can upgrade to 20amp circuit and GFI if you can. 15-20 amp is significant in running basics in your RV

Get a watt meter this will tell you your loads in lehman terms

https://www.amazon.com/Poniie-PN2000...s%2C218&sr=8-3

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Old 02-05-2020, 07:41 PM   #5
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When you brought the rig home, did you have the water heater switched to operate on electric along with no water in the water heater tank? If so, this is a common problem which will cause a GFI to trip because the element burns apart causing the GFI to trip.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:46 PM   #6
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Turn all of your breakers off with the exception of the circuit that you are plugged into. Try your shop vac. If it works, turn on 1 breaker at a time until the circuit trips. The one that trips it will most likely be the one with the heavy current draw. Then you can troubleshoot that circuit. At least its a place to start anyhow..... Good luck!
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Old 02-06-2020, 04:15 AM   #7
harris71
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re: electrical GFCI tripping.

Thanks for all the responses. It seems worth the investment so I'll order the usage monitor to see how much draw there is. Water heater is off and thermostat (heat and A/C) is off. The flat screens have a minimal draw, as does the microwave clock. Everything else was off. I'll also try the elimination process with all the circuit breakers. (we ran out of time due to our HOA restrictions..... Can't bring it back home for another two weeks.) I'll post what I find out.
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Old 02-06-2020, 04:17 AM   #8
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How many amps does the shopvac draw?
Looking at your EMS, what was your current draw before turning on the shopvac?
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Old 02-06-2020, 06:58 AM   #9
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I'm not an electrician either but experience tells me you are just trying to do too much with a 15amp circuit. Just the two adapters you use to get from 50amp cord to 15amp outlet is like putting three splices in the service. Shop vac motors are traditionally not the best grade of electric motors and often don't play well with shared GFCI. I think you are spending time chasing a problem that is not there.
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Old 02-06-2020, 09:30 AM   #10
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Run the shop vac on an extension cord plugged in to a receptacle in the garage 8-)
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Old 02-06-2020, 11:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harris71 View Post
Thanks for all the responses. It seems worth the investment so I'll order the usage monitor to see how much draw there is. Water heater is off and thermostat (heat and A/C) is off. The flat screens have a minimal draw, as does the microwave clock. Everything else was off. I'll also try the elimination process with all the circuit breakers. (we ran out of time due to our HOA restrictions..... Can't bring it back home for another two weeks.) I'll post what I find out.
I use that (similar) meter to measure draw all the electrical components in the RV that way I know what each wattage draw is and I have it logged for future reference, that helps me also manage line voltage inputs are well as load on Gen. With the wattage logged I can do the quick math to know what gadgets I can combine depending on the power inputs. Make sure you log both start up load and running loads.
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Old 02-06-2020, 05:19 PM   #12
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If there are two GFCIs in line, the one you are plugging the camper into and one in the camper, one of them will trip. Try plugging the camper into a non GFCI outlet.
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Old 02-06-2020, 06:01 PM   #13
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I found an article (and now can’t find it) that said in a circuit where a GFCI outlet is wired downstream of another GFCI outlet, when the downstream outlet performs a self check, the upstream outlet may see that as a fault and trip. During a self check the self testing GFCI creates an artificial fault to ensure the fault is recognized by the GFCI SENDOR. Still trying to find the article again. But could possibly be what you are experiencing.
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Old 02-09-2020, 08:04 PM   #14
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I have to agree with Jim you are trying to take 2 120 volt 50amp legs then combine them together into 1 30 amp 120volt leg and further dropping it gown to 15 amps. I can see where that can cause all sorts of problems...if you are going to park your trailer at home much I would consider running a 50 amp plug for you to plug into... I have both a 30amp (my old trailer) and a 50 amp plug (for my Montana) in my garage.
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:14 PM   #15
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Update to electrical issue

I was able to bring the rig back home (HOA rules). In the meantime, I purchased a digital power monitor and a 50 amp to 15 amp pigtail to plug into the back of the rig to eliminate my 50 amp power cord being the problem. Power cord is fine, converter tests OK. I then, as suggested, went through breaker by breaker (all appliances, tv's, etc. off or unplugged), monitoring the power draw. Everything looked normal and no GFCI tripped. Then went appliance by appliance. The REFRIGERATOR was the only thing that tripped the GFCI. I did further testing and it is definitely the refrigerator. Google search on "Norcold tripping GFCI" turned up a multitude of entries. It's usually bad heating elements. Parts aren't expensive, but the Norcold service manual requires the refrigerator be pulled from its enclosure in order to access them.

Now I'm debating whether to attempt this myself or hire a tech to do it. Ouch.... Anyone out there done this themselves?
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Old 02-25-2020, 04:59 PM   #16
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Did you turn on the fridge with the breaker in the panel or with the on/off switch on the fridge? If you did this with the breaker and it tripped the GFI, maybe check the outlet where the plug from the fridge plugs into behind the fridge. If you got water into the outlet box, it's possible that moisture is what could be tripping the GFI. Something to check before you go to the hassle of replacing heating elements.
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Old 02-25-2020, 05:29 PM   #17
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Diagnosing the fridge

The first trip of the GFCI was when the on/off button on the fridge was pushed. The breaker, by itself, did not trip it. I unplugged the fridge from the outlet that is accessible through the exterior panel. I tested the receptacle for open ground/ open neutral, etc. and was all good. I plugged the fridge directly into an extension cord that was plugged into a GFCI in my garage, and the GFCI tripped. The last thing I need to do is to check the ohms on the heating elements to see if they are OK. Something for tomorrow.
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Old 02-25-2020, 08:03 PM   #18
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I would check the condition of the GFCI in the garage first. If that outlet is weak then it will trip. If nothing is tripping in the trailer, check the GFCI that the trailer is plugged into. Start at the end of the line and work toward the other.
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Old 02-25-2020, 08:07 PM   #19
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I would check the condition of the GFCI in the garage first. If that outlet is weak then it will trip. If nothing is tripping in the trailer, check the GFCI that the trailer is plugged into. Start at the end of the line and work toward the other. We plug our HC330RL into a GFCI outlet and use a shop vac and a household vacuum with no problems.
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Old 02-25-2020, 08:12 PM   #20
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Just to rule out one thing, Is your plug on your vac a three prong or two prong?
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