FYI over weight can cost you

[DebNJim B]

Originally Posted by Daryles

A backing up test????
That's it, I'm finished.

Ditto

[beeje]

Originally Posted by mlh

A 2019 F150 3.5 Ecoboost 4X2 Conventional tow is rated by Ford in the spec sheet is rated it tow 13,200 pounds with the maxtow package. This isn’t something I made up I comes right out of Ford’s spec sheet. I did make a mistake I thought it was 13,300 pounds and I think it was last year but I’m not sure of that.
Lynwood

Lynwood, Those specs are more than likely for a pull behind travel trailer, not a fifth wheel.

Know one should be using the manufactures max fifth wheel tow rating anyway. In most cases they are WAY overstated. One should only use the trucks payload capacity while choosing a truck/camper combination.

Take the truck in my sig for example, Its fifth wheel max tow rating is 23,500 lbs. No way could I or would I tow any fifth wheel that heavy. It would put me at 4700+lbs of pin weight alone without counting hitch/passengers/fuel/stuff in truck and bed etc.

[mlh]

Would I pull 13,200 with my F150 or pull over 30,000 pounds with a HD Diesel?Do I have stupid wrote on my forehead?

There is no way I would feel safe but I will pull what I feel safe with. If you ever Googled tow ratings you wouldn’t put much faith in them either. For instance DRW trucks are held to a lower standard than SRW trucks. DRW for the most part are rated at 30 MPH while the SRW are rated at 35 MPH. Why would that be? Who pulls their camper or anything 30 or 35 on the interstate? When trucks are tested like real people use trucks I’ll pay attention to them.

When these tow ratings were developed a group from the auto industry got together and came up with them. That is like putting a fox and a hawk in charge of watching the chicken house. What would you think they would come up with? Try fried chicken.
Lynwood

[Dave W]

In NY State I had the predecessor to the current type of CDL since I worked p/t at a garage that required me to operate their tow truck. I kept that license for years until the current CDL came about and really no longer needed that license. I went and served in Uncle Sam's army for a few years, got my military driver's license then became a driving instructor and tester. My license filled up with what I could drive and teach - dinky 2000 pound M38 Jeep to 50+ ton M60 Patton tank and literally every thing in between. A 40+ foot lowboy trailer with a Cat D-9 was easier to back up then our current 38 foot 5er. I has to do with wheel placement and speed of change in turning.


As far as my truck - yep, I'm overwieght towing by sticker by 2-300 pounds depending on how I load. By actual part number on the OEM suspension, well within the truck's capability. Unfortunately that yellow 'B' pillar still says 10,000 pounds as it's an F250. If we end up with more laws and stricter enforcement, we will need to trade up or down (truck or trailer) or stop RVing.


Class A's - the mammoth sizes of some of these is staggering now with 45 feet not unusual. Looking at some of the folks climbing out of the driver's seat gives me some concern with visible physical impairments.

[DebNJim B]

Getting back to the op comments regarding licensing and drivers. I have found that most of the RVers I have met have experience towing trailers, often starting with pop ups or small tt's like myself and moving up to a 5er. I also carried a cdl for years but gave it up when I stopped driving commercial due to the cost and the physical. I have also been cut off by truckers as often as RVers, though rarely for both, more likely a young guy in a Beemer.

As for backing up, I struggle along with that. I find the FW harder than a TT. I have also had to back into some real tight places and done it like a pro. I think the reason was it was so tight I went very slowly and carefully. One time I got in a Marathon station and couldn't make the turn for the exit and had to back into a space between the building and a dumpster with about 6" on each side to clear. Took me about 15 minutes but I got it done. Then I get home and try to back into my driveway that is 30' wide and miss my spot by a good 6', go figure.
I think the biggest problem that I have seen on the road is too much speed and poor weight distribution producing sway.
It would be nice though if dealers at least offered to provide new customers some training options in addition to the pdi.

[BB_TX]

Originally Posted by beeje

Lynwood, Those specs are more than likely for a pull behind travel trailer, not a fifth wheel.

......

Per the link I posted above, the max 5th wheel tow rating for specific F150 configurations is 12,000, with a number of other configurations in the 11,500+ range. And payloads over 3,000 lbs. These are not the trucks of old.

And with RV manufacturers producing lightweight 5ers with GVWRs of 11,000 and under and tongue weights 1,100 lbs and under, there should be no problem towing a 5er with an F150 if you match up the numbers correctly for truck and trailer. And some of those lightweight 5ers are in the 25' to 29' range with slides.

[beeje]

Still don't get your math there.

11,000 lbs x 20% = 2200lbs on the pin.

At 10% pin weight, I would suspect a considerable amount of sway.

[beeje]

Just looked through fords 2019 towing guide. Talk about confusing.

The highest ratings are striped down Reg cab 2x4 configurations. Who tows with them ? I would bet not many.

Hitch my empty Monty (12,000lbs) up to one of those and you will be hating life for sure.

[1retired06]

Originally Posted by mlh

Would I pull 13,200 with my F150 or pull over 30,000 pounds with a HD Diesel?Do I have stupid wrote on my forehead?

There is no way I would feel safe but I will pull what I feel safe with. If you ever Googled tow ratings you wouldn’t put much faith in them either. For instance DRW trucks are held to a lower standard than SRW trucks. DRW for the most part are rated at 30 MPH while the SRW are rated at 35 MPH. Why would that be? Who pulls their camper or anything 30 or 35 on the interstate? When trucks are tested like real people use trucks I’ll pay attention to them.

When these tow ratings were developed a group from the auto industry got together and came up with them. That is like putting a fox and a hawk in charge of watching the chicken house. What would you think they would come up with? Try fried chicken.
Lynwood

Hard to disagree with anything Lynwood said!

[Richcart]

Originally Posted by mlh

I guess I’m in the minority again, still. I don’t see where people pulling a camper or driving a large MH are having any problems. So I don’t see how some more laws would solve problems that don’t exist. Maybe our governments should just leave us alone. I remember a Va senator who always said ‘ every time we pass a law we infringe on someone’s rights’. I agree!
Lynwood

Agree, laws shouldn't be passed on the what ifs. What are the % of accidents involving RVs? I too have seen under sized tv pulling a large 5th wheel. Maybe a system could be developed that helped people understand the situation before they invest their money in both. When looking for our tv I researched a lot to learn all the pros and cons and what is legal. When looking at rv, there were several sales people who said a 3/4 ton would be fine knowing their rig weighed in excess of 16000 pounds when fully loaded. It was also confusing when we were looking at a Dodge 1 ton. All DRWs are not the same, especially with Dodge. Engine, transmission and rear end can mean 17,000 vs 32,000 towing capacity all with DRW. Another reason to provide good education system so people understand what they are buying and if it will work. Once bought, a person isn't likely to lose money by selling and buying again just to be within tow capacity. While in Cheyenne a few weeks ago I saw a Nisan Titan diesel pulling a 40' Monty. That's a 1/2 ton truck no matter how you slice it....

[jetskier]

Look up J2807....that's why the tow ratings have jumped in recent years

[mlh]

Originally Posted by jetskier

Look up J2807....that's why the tow ratings have jumped in recent years

I agree! These tow ratings mean near nothing. They are a joke. A sick joke.
Lynwood

[Theunz]

Xxxxxx

[Theunz]

Whoops, erroneous post

[beeje]

I agree, the way the tow ratings are figured out are total BS. However, they are what they are. If for some reason you loose control of your rig and cause a wreck killing others in the process, god help you once the lawyers get involved and find out you were operating your rig well above its designed and stated weight limits. Is it really worth loosing everything you have worked hard for ?

[mlh]

Originally Posted by beeje

I agree, the way the tow ratings are figured out are total BS. However, they are what they are. If for some reason you loose control of your rig and cause a wreck killing others in the process, god help you once the lawyers get involved and find out you were operating your rig well above its designed and stated weight limits. Is it really worth loosing everything you have worked hard for ?

That is what we have insurance for.
Lynwood

[mhs4771]

Insurance is fine up to a limit, but just look at the multi-million dollar settlements these Auto Accident/Personal Injury Lawyers are getting above and beyond the insurance for their clients.

[1retired06]

As I posted years ago, we were involved in our only accident with an RV ever, on the Interstate going thru St Louis. Minimal damage. Other driver received the blame and two citations. BUT, I was escorted to a weigh station to determine if I was within Towing Standards for my rig and truck.

[JandC]

Starting the last week in June of this year the Florida Highway Patrol started weighing pickup trucks that appeared to be overloaded.

The following information came from a company that test scales for accuracy.

The FHP would pull over a pickup that looked overloaded. Dispatch would run the VIN and provide the officer with the manufacturers weight ratings.

If the pickup was less than 10 percent or less over weight they issued a ticked. If greater than 10 percent they required the trailer to be towed buy a wrecker service.

The ones that got cute and called a friend with a bigger truck resulted in the friend being request to produce their DOT documents as a commercial vehicle.

Now no one is laughing

Phil [/QUOTE]

That is really nothing new my friend. We used to pull over unsafe looking PU trucks all the time back in the 80's and 90's. You know, the ones going down the interstate loaded with aggregate or whatever with their bumpers 2" off the pavement. We would escort them to the nearest scale and usually write them for overweight on registration plus an unsafe equipment citation. They were not allowed to continue until made safe.

[BB_TX]

Originally Posted by beeje

Still don't get your math there.

11,000 lbs x 20% = 2200lbs on the pin.

At 10% pin weight, I would suspect a considerable amount of sway.

The published numbers of 11,000 I mentioned are the GVWR, or the designed max load, not the actual. And many of those 5ers have GVWRs of under 10,000.

They also publish the shipping, or dry, weight which is considerably less than GVWR.

The hitch weight numbers of 1,100 I mentioned are also the dry weight.
Of course the loaded pin weight depends on how much "stuff" each person loads and how they load it, no two of which will be the same.