Liquid Floor Repair

[EllsworthToohey]

So here it is. The floor damage by the wicking of rain into the living room slide over the years. Hooray for the Blue tape prevention for pennies, but the damage was done. I cringed at the process of removing the floor for replacement or the complexity of cutting out portions of the plywood and installation of patches that have to have some method of strengthening the unsupported joint between the existing floor and the patches. I just did not like these choices. Here is what I chose to do, based on my experience in plastic resin composites.

I bought a gallon of epoxy resin for $59 that comes as 1/2 gal each of resin and hardener that is mixed 1:1 ratio. I started by scraping out the soft rotted wood and vacuumed up all the particles. There were 3 major areas of rot. At the front end of the slide the biggest was on the inboard side and another in the outboard corner. The 3rd are was the outboard corner of the rear end of the slide.

Beginning at the original spot I found, I dug out the most old wood, exposing the black woven plastic protective barrier about the size of a saucer. I put boards under the floor outside and held them firm to the floor with a bott;e jack. Then I poured the 1st layer about 1/8 inch deep to test the black plastic ability to contain the resin. No leaks observed. I let this cure for 2 days and repeated small pours. When cured this stuff is clear as glass and stronger than the plywood itself. I was not sure how well the liquid resin would absorb into the wood. Turns out it wicks deep into the wood fibers which is fantastic! I left the edges ragged to accommodate greater grip of the bonding.

Learning as my experiment goes, I did not dig out as much of the damaged wood from the other 2 spots. When you see the pics you will see random strips of a strong fiberous grass I have as well as one of the popsicle sticks used for mixing the resin. I did this as just a whim. In theory this strengthens the hardened resin but it is inconsequential but it shows how glassy this stuff is. This is the same stull people make counter tops or artsy coffee tables or bars. You can imbed anything in it. But imbedding is not the point. It was a LOT easier than removing the floor! I have one more pour in the original large spot that I will do tomorrow.

In 100 years when archeologists find the aluminum frame of this coach, there will be these glass like plastic pieces lying nearby that still look new!

Should you do this? That my friend is entirely up to you.

[DutchmenSport]

EllsworthToohey,

My, my, my .... I will say... THAT'S IMPRESSIVE! Oh my!

Never in a million years would I have ever thought of using epoxy resin for such a project as something like this. I'm beyond ecstatic for your post! This is such an easy solution for a really nasty problem (wood rot). Oh my! Thank-you for sharing!

I've been a hobby woodworker all my life. I've remodeled (completely gutted all rooms) in 3 different houses over the course of my lifetime. I enjoy scroll saw work (fretwork), I've built cabinets, installed bathtubs, and run electric wiring and plumbing. I've done ditch work, sewer work, concrete work, and roofing. (oh my have I done roofing). Never got paid for any of it, except the resale of my own house. But been doing this all my life, from the time I was a kid I had a hammer in my hand.

But, it wasn't until last December my wife suggest we cover the counter top for the cabinet I'm building with resin instead of polyurethane. I watched lots and lots of YouTube videos on how to apply the epoxy as I was building the cabinet.

I'd never worked or even considered resin before for any project. like I said, I've had a lifetime of woodworking experience too.

So, when the cabinet reached the point where I needed to finish out the top, I did it! It took 2 packages = a total of 2 gallons, and I applied 2 coats. All along I had my serious doubts, until the resin leveled itself and came out looking like glass! Oh my goodness!

I watched all kind of YouTube videos on folks using epoxy resin on all kinds of things, including imbedding a dandy lion! Watched how they used resin to fill cracks, gaps, rotten portions of wood to give character to bar tops and such. But NEVER did I connect the dots about using this stuff for rotten wood filler.

My friend ... you have just opened my eyes and my mind to some wild new ideas for epoxy resin! Wow!

Here's my counter top. First photo is the before resin, second is after resin!

FYI, those two holes, and later small boxes? That's so electric cords can be pushed in them and plugged in from under the cabinet top. It keeps wires from being a tangled mess on the counter top. Also, I do not have doors yet, and I'm currently making an addition before attaching the doors, a gigantic combined bread box and potato bin which will be part of this cabinet. But the top of the cabinet:

Before:



After:



Before:



After:

[EllsworthToohey]

[QUOTE=DutchmenSport;1244076]EllsworthToohey,

My, my, my .... I will say... THAT'S IMPRESSIVE! Oh my!

Never in a million years would I have ever thought of using epoxy resin for such a project as something like this. I'm beyond ecstatic for your post! This is such an easy solution for a really nasty problem (wood rot). Oh my! Thank-you for sharing!
----------------------------

My my my indeed. Your comments have blown me away my friend. I fully expected to be called crazy! Insane! How dare I do something so unconventional?!?!?! I am thrilled to have this be the 1st response to my post and project. Your photos of the counter top you made really shows how beautiful epoxy resin can be. Mine will be hidden away under carpeting and insulation, but its real beauty is the strength it has given to what would normally be a compromised piece of wood.

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou for your generous comments.

[Andy Smith]

This is so cool. I am going to bookmark this for when my slide floor eventually will need the same repair. I had often wondered about this as an alternative to replacing floors or panels. I've done lots of woodworking over the years and always was very happy with how well these epoxies strengthened and sealed woods. I've used them for everything from furniture to making weatherproof string instruments, but never thought of it for structural repair. Thanks so much for sharing!

edit: I'm wondering if there would be any way to use this in a vertical application like a wall rather than a floor.

[EllsworthToohey]

Thanks Andy. I really am happy with the responses I've gotten. Never expected much in the way of approval. This really came to me after having a professional RV tech quote for repair. he was a very good and honest guy, whose opinion was for the age of the RV, he did not think the damage was all that bad, and that I should fix it myself for cheap, using his method of screwing 20 gauge sheet steel patches over and under the damaged area. he said he would be happy to fix it for a thousand $, but I should save the $ and do it myself. Looking at sheet metal prices @ Lowes would have been more than the price of the resin, and I was concerned by the edge of the sheet metal lower shaving the nylon bearing strip that the slide rides up on.

His main point was, FIX THE SOURCE OF THE LEAK 1st, then repair in the least expensive and laborious way possible. Reflecting on how this went in terms of the epoxy penetrating into the wood fibers, I am gaining confidence that this could be an IDEAL solution to a much more formidable problem - water damage to the exterior edge of main floor under the water heater which is beneath the sink cabinet. This meant ripping out all the kitchen counter cabinets and water heater to gain working access to that section of flooring. Now seeing how the epoxy penetrates the wood, I am thinking of just pulling up the linoleum in that area and pouring epoxy on the damaged area, even where the stilt legs of the water heater platform are visibly sunk into the floor. The epoxy can seep into this wood and transform it from soft mush, to hardened rock. When and if I do this I will post another thread.

Your feedback has energized me!

[R.S.O'Donnell]

I love it! The alternative is lots of work! Good to watch till the end. I drilled my holes. Fortunately no water came out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28ZhF9VLdmA

[EllsworthToohey]

I watched that video and many others a couple months ago. I really like the way this guy works, and his attitude. Plus this 2005 looks exactly like my 2006 370RL. Now I just need to learn how you embedded the video into the forum! I could not figure out how to do the 30 second vid I linked for the Painters tape drip edge!

[MandK]

Ellsworth, thank you for the write up, bringing this to attention of others. Using an epoxy/resin is an excellent way to salvage a bad situation with rotted wood. As a boater, I know that to be a common fix for rotted wood or balsa core. Epoxy is always used to “paint” over plywood core or balsa that lies between frp and gel coat skins when drilling new hull or deck penetrations for fittings, should the bedding sealant ever fail, the water will not be able to enter the wood.

Below is a picture of a hull penetration I made some time ago to install a new thru hull fitting (obviously the boat was out of the water) the wood between the inner and outer fiberglass skins gets a good coat of epoxy painted on and allowed to fully cure before bedding the new fitting in an approved for below the waterline bedding sealant. Painting the edge of the slide floors the same way before installing an improved drip edge or ski would be a good move in my opinion.

[Carl n Susan]

Originally Posted by EllsworthToohey

.....Now I just need to learn how# you embedded the video into the forum! I could not figure out how to do the 30 second vid I linked for the Painters tape drip edge!

There is a Thread entitled Forum Posting 101 and Account Help (https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...ad.php?t=70323) which addresses a host of features of the MOC software. Posts #8, #19, and #26 discuss adding pictures and videos

[jwengermt]

Awesome idea. Wish i had known this before I fixed the floor in mine. My fix worked, but this is much better. You could actually pour a thin layer of this over the entire floor.
If i ever decide to tear mine apart again, i'll use this method. Thanks for sharing.

[TennTom]

I used to live aboard a 45' vessel in New England years ago and had some rot damage. This link I am providing helped me immensely and encourage you all to take a look. https://www.rotdoctor.com/

[ccl]

that's awesome. great job

[EllsworthToohey]

Originally Posted by R.S.O'Donnell

I love it! The alternative is lots of work! Good to watch till the end. I drilled my holes. Fortunately no water came out.

As I said above, I had watched this video in my original education of how to fix these slide floors. This is exactly my model Montana just 1 year older than mine.

After watching it again posted here in MOC, I looked under my bedroom slide more closely. Just looking, it appears perfect, but the I noticed something! (insert dramatic music here) All of the screw heads along the outer wall were all rusty!!! Could it be? Mmm Hmmm using finger pressure I could feel the softness along this outer edge through the plastic. Well, well, well.... doesn't this stuff hide itself spectacularly!? Until its ready to become a catastrophe.

When the weather warms up again for more than a day or 2 I will be removing whatever part of the bed is necessary to just gain access from inside, and I plan on pouring another fix. The beauty of this epoxy resin solution is that it not only fills cavities, but more important, that it penetrates INTO the rotted wood like a sponge.

When I decided to do this I was pretty confident it would work well but that most people would think me crazy. You boaters really validated the thinking behind this, especially the post above with links to The Rot Doctor.

[Mikelff]

Originally Posted by EllsworthToohey

So here it is. The floor damage by the wicking of rain into the living room slide over the years. Hooray for the Blue tape prevention for pennies, but the damage was done. I cringed at the process of removing the floor for replacement or the complexity of cutting out portions of the plywood and installation of patches that have to have some method of strengthening the unsupported joint between the existing floor and the patches. I just did not like these choices. Here is what I chose to do, based on my experience in plastic resin composites.

I bought a gallon of epoxy resin for $59 that comes as 1/2 gal each of resin and hardener that is mixed 1:1 ratio. I started by scraping out the soft rotted wood and vacuumed up all the particles. There were 3 major areas of rot. At the front end of the slide the biggest was on the inboard side and another in the outboard corner. The 3rd are was the outboard corner of the rear end of the slide.

Beginning at the original spot I found, I dug out the most old wood, exposing the black woven plastic protective barrier about the size of a saucer. I put boards under the floor outside and held them firm to the floor with a bott;e jack. Then I poured the 1st layer about 1/8 inch deep to test the black plastic ability to contain the resin. No leaks observed. I let this cure for 2 days and repeated small pours. When cured this stuff is clear as glass and stronger than the plywood itself. I was not sure how well the liquid resin would absorb into the wood. Turns out it wicks deep into the wood fibers which is fantastic! I left the edges ragged to accommodate greater grip of the bonding.

Learning as my experiment goes, I did not dig out as much of the damaged wood from the other 2 spots. When you see the pics you will see random strips of a strong fiberous grass I have as well as one of the popsicle sticks used for mixing the resin. I did this as just a whim. In theory this strengthens the hardened resin but it is inconsequential but it shows how glassy this stuff is. This is the same stull people make counter tops or artsy coffee tables or bars. You can imbed anything in it. But imbedding is not the point. It was a LOT easier than removing the floor! I have one more pour in the original large spot that I will do tomorrow.

In 100 years when archeologists find the aluminum frame of this coach, there will be these glass like plastic pieces lying nearby that still look new!

Should you do this? That my friend is entirely up to you.

This is a great idea. Question, do you need a respirator to work with this material? I am a longtime boater and have done a fair amount of work using fiberglass resin rebuilding/repairing boats. A respirator is required to work with fiberglass resins, especially in an enclosed area even with good ventilation. For the most part, they are not epoxy resins, however there are epoxy marine resins available. Just wondering about the fumes. Epoxy resins are much stronger than poly resins, and more expensive, but with repairs like this, epoxy is the way to go. Thanks.

[TennTom]

The only section of my vessel that was wood was the aft cabin wall. Made sense to be wood for if either 871 had to come out it would be easier to remove the wood wall. When I used it I was on the aft deck outside and didn't need a respirator. I don't remember any fumes coming from it, but then I was injecting it into the wood.

[Oldsoldier]

Anyone who hasn’t heard of this never restored a vintage camper. I also buy epoxy by the gallon as well as fiberglass mat as needed. I’m currently restoring a 1946 Spartan Manor, so wood “repair” is a must. An excellent source is Total Boat: they specialize in materiel for builds and repairs. This Spartan had Consoweld flooring: a material many people regard as “indestructible”….which it definitely ain’t. You may think fixing a slide floor is tough, but try replacing the ENTIRE floor of a 33’ long trailer, by yourself! I had just finished doing that on our 1950 Spartan Royal Mansion, so didn’t want to do it again when I started the Manor. There were multiple places where water had delaminated the floor to the point you could see the ground. The worst repairs required fiberglass mat and even some aluminum flashing embedded to keep the epoxy inside. Multiple pours; overlapped, expanding edges; and starting out with slightly bevelled edges will help ensure you have room for repairs to “grow”. Total Boat sells a suite of epoxies, gel coat, mat in different strand types/weaves, wood preservation stuff, etc. they have their own training videos on youtube. A good guy to watch is an independent Airstream restoration specialist who is on youtube as “Millers Garage”; Ian Miller by name, and pro by game. He’s good, even if he is from Texas! One video focuses on prepping plywood to replace an entire floor. Plywood edges are the weakest link in a floor; sealing them is a must; and we all know if you have a camper [and those of us with four campers know it even moreso], it’s going to become water damaged. If over four years old, you have damage even if you don’t know it.
1946 Spartan Manor [25’ long; 26’ long now after lengthening the tongue]
1950 Spartan Royal Mansion [33’ long]
1964 Fireball Meteor named Derel [short for Derelict; in Mar/Apr issue 2021 of Vintage Camper Trailer Magazine]. 16’ long.
2018 Keystone Montana High Country 31re
2017 Ford F250
Note: that makes 101 feet of camper if connected in daisychain.

[Oldsoldier]

He didn’t seal the plywood edges, and screwed the plywood into water damaged side walls.