Another dry camping question/mystery!

[kingdaddy]

On our recent dry camping adventure, and using my Predator 3500 gen. for the first time, I noticed something about power output that was a bit of a mystery to me.

I also have a Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C protecting my electrical system, and I have the "open neutral" adaptor plug for the gen. which all worked great while on our trip.
Great generator...especially for the price!

My question is that the generator output level (in amps) does not agree with what I'm seeing on the P.I. digital readout display?

When I first fired up the gen. I was surprised to see how many amps I was seeing on L1 on the digital readout (assuming the load on the inverter charging the batts?) Then while using the microwave, it seemed as though I was overloading the gen. which states not to exceed 25 amps (running).

However, when I looked at the amp load on the generator display, it was much less than what I was seeing on L1 and L2 on the P.I. indicator.

I'm sure there is a somewhat simple explanation, but I haven't yet figured it out!

[MARK A]

The microwave should put a load on your generator, it's fine, but the microwave and converter is about all it's going to want.

Or the toaster and hair dryer.. My Honda 3100 IS runs the microwave fine.


Mark

[rohrmann]

When we dry camp, I turn off the breaker to the converter prior to running the microwave. With our Honda 2000, I also turn off the ECO mode to have the generator running at higher rpm's which makes the microwave start up much easier.

[BB_TX]

So your question is why the discrepancy in the amp readout between your EMS display and the generator display. Just clarifying your question as I have no good answer other than difference in accuracy of the readouts.

[Ram Montana High Country]

What was each one reading? Each instrument will be different

[bshgto]

Originally Posted by Ram Montana High Country

What was each one reading? Each instrument will be different

As a former electrician with several current probes there might be a 1 or 2 amp difference between devices but nothing significant unless your working with complete junk.
The only way to really test for this issue is measure the amp draw at the generator with one of these. Just pull the wire cap apart and check the black- hot leg while running what ever you want.


https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-Tou...074B/410005314

Bought one for my son and checked accuracy with my Fluke it was right on the money surprising for a $15.00 meter.

Harbor Freight has one to.

[kingdaddy]

Yes, just to clarify the question a bit... I am seeing a substantial discrepancy between the Progressive Industries HW50C display and the display on the generator (Predator 3500).

The gen. handles the inverter load and microwave fine, but the discrepancy between the two displays has me puzzled...

I should have gotten the actual values when I was camping, but did not.

It was a discrepancy far more than just instrumentation variance. I'm assuming the generator display is accurate on the actual output of the gen. in amps, but wondering if the P.I. display is somehow reading something different?
If you have one of these, you will know that it reads L1 and L2 seperately...both in amps and voltage.

[kingdaddy]

Yes, just to clarify the question a bit... I am seeing a substantial discrepancy between the Progressive Industries HW50C display and the display on the generator (Predator 3500).

The gen. handles the inverter load and microwave fine, but the discrepancy between the two displays has me puzzled...

I should have gotten the actual values when I was camping, but did not.

It was a discrepancy far more than just instrumentation variance. I'm assuming the generator display is accurate on the actual output of the gen. in amps, but wondering if the P.I. display is somehow reading something different?
If you have one of these, you will know that it reads L1 and L2 seperately...both in amps and voltage.

Thinking I will give Progressive Industries a call...

[Montana Man]

If that is a Harbor Freight generator I would look at it first as being the problem.

[prndl]

Could the discrepancy be due to the generator only having a 30 amp plug output and the Progressive Industries HW50C ideally setup for two leg 50amp service?

[kingdaddy]

Originally Posted by Montana Man

If that is a Harbor Freight generator I would look at it first as being the problem.

Although I doubt that is the source of the discrepancy, I guess it's possible...

I'm gonna put some load on it now that we're home and then compare the digital gauge readout with my clamp on ammeter and see how it compares.

Just seems like the load measured in amps should be very close when reading the gen. output on the digital gauge and when checking the load on the HW50C digital gauge...

When we first got to camp, I fired up the gen. and the HW50C was reading 23 amps on L2! Assuming the inverter was charging the batteries?
(That load did slowly diminish over time down as low as 8 or 9 amps.)

Then my wife turned on the microwave and it had something like 11 amps on L1. So I'm now concerned that we have 11+23=34 amps on it!

But the gen. gauge showed only something like 18 or 19 amps as I recall...
(I didn't carefully check the numbers so these are just from "memory")

Never tripped a breaker or caused any issues with the gen. just throttled up and handled the load like a champ! (never used the A/C).

[twindman]

My converter only draws 8-12 amps when batteries are low and I first plug in. Within 3 or 4 minutes it is down to 2-5 I think. 23 amps is way too high I think. MAYBE... the water heater is also turned on electric??? I think it pulls 10-12 amps. That would make about 18-24 amps total. Just a thought.

[kingdaddy]

Originally Posted by twindman

My converter only draws 8-12 amps when batteries are low and I first plug in. Within 3 or 4 minutes it is down to 2-5 I think. 23 amps is way too high I think. MAYBE... the water heater is also turned on electric??? I think it pulls 10-12 amps. That would make about 18-24 amps total. Just a thought.

Yes, I was quite surprised to see how much load there was showing on the P.I. digital readout. There was nothing else on...the fridge was on propane, no water heater or anything else that I'm aware of.

Were you running a gen. or on shore power? Right now, I'm running an extension cord from a 110 house plug in the garage through an extension cord and only seeing 2 amps on my P.I. gauge and that's with an Fantastic Fan running.

Gotta say, RV electric systems are a bit of a mystery to me...

[chenevb]

I have the same setup that you have...a Predator 3500 and a hardwired Progressive Industries EMS fr a 50A RV. In that inverter generator, you can plug a 30A extension cord, so at some point, you have a 30A to 50A adaptor. This means that L1 from your generator in fact feeds both L1 and L2 on your RV. So the current draw that you see on your generator readout should equal the sum of the draws displayed separately for L1 and L2 on your EMS

[kingdaddy]

Yes, all of the trailer load should be showing up (in amps) on the digital readout on the generator.
And I believe that it does display accurately. I verified this by putting a known amount of load (measured in watts) on the generator at home and the generator current reading in amps was very close to what you would expect to see when doing the Ohm's law math.
If I read your comment correctly, you seem to be saying that the generator reading would be the sum of L1 and L2 (and therefore a higher reading)
However, this is NOT what I'm seeing.
The gen. load reading is substantially LESS than the sum of the readings on the HW50C readout.
I think I will take the generator out to the RV storage and fire it up and get some hard numbers, however I believe the same question will still exist...i.e. why do the two readouts not agree (within margin of error)?

[uhftx]

I think your EMS measures things between ground and neutral.

Why would you need an open neutral?

Your original statement. I have the "open neutral" adaptor plug for the gen. which all worked great while on our trip.
Great generator...especially for the price!

[3500SRW Cummins 3120RL]

If I understand your statement:

“ When we first got to camp, I fired up the gen. and the HW50C was reading 23 amps on L2! Assuming the inverter was charging the batteries?
(That load did slowly diminish over time down as low as 8 or 9 amps.)

Then my wife turned on the microwave and it had something like 11 amps on L1. So I'm now concerned that we have 11+23=34 amps on it!

But the gen. gauge showed only something like 18 or 19 amps as I recall...”

The generator L1 reading is total gen output, which is split via 30/50 adaptor to L1 and L2 in camper. After the “converter” had settled down. The L2 8 or 9 “converter” amps added to the L1 11 microwave amps equals 19 or 20 amps, which is close to the 18 or 19 generator amps.
You might check readings with a stable load, converter off.

[kingdaddy]

Originally Posted by uhftx

I think your EMS measures things between ground and neutral.

Why would you need an open neutral?

Your original statement. I have the "open neutral" adaptor plug for the gen. which all worked great while on our trip.
Great generator...especially for the price!

Sorry, not a clear statement on my part...

The open neutral adapter is for the invertor gens. (like my Predator 3500) to prevent the EMS system from seeing the open neutral condition on the gen.

If you don't have one of these, the HW50C will prevent the generator from providing power to the unit.

[kingdaddy]

Originally Posted by 3500SRW Cummins 3120RL

If I understand your statement:

“ When we first got to camp, I fired up the gen. and the HW50C was reading 23 amps on L2! Assuming the inverter was charging the batteries?
(That load did slowly diminish over time down as low as 8 or 9 amps.)

Then my wife turned on the microwave and it had something like 11 amps on L1. So I'm now concerned that we have 11+23=34 amps on it!

But the gen. gauge showed only something like 18 or 19 amps as I recall...”

The generator L1 reading is total gen output, which is split via 30/50 adaptor to L1 and L2 in camper. After the “converter” had settled down. The L2 8 or 9 “converter” amps added to the L1 11 microwave amps equals 19 or 20 amps, which is close to the 18 or 19 generator amps.
You might check readings with a stable load, converter off.

I don't believe the 30 amp adaptor has anything to do with the L1 and L2 loads. I have the same type of readouts when just connected to a 50 amp shore power pedestal. I could be wrong about that, but that is my impression.
As I said, when the microwave was on, I was concerned that I was overloading the generator according to the total on the EMS readout. However, the gen. breaker did not trip and when I checked the gen. readout it showed approx. 18 or 19 amps at about the same time that I was reading over 30 amps total on L1 and L2 on the EMS readout.
Didn't have time to call Progressive Industries today, but first thing tomorrow and will share what they have to say.
Also gonna run some tests on the unit with my gen. in the next day or so to see if I can figure it out and get some hard numbers.
Appreciate all the feedback!

[Dam Worker]

If your HW-50C is the same as mine and you have the remote that shows the voltage and amps according to their trouble shooting techs. You can just turn it off at the remote and presto you can run your inverter genset with out messing around with the modified neutral. At least on mine it works like a charm and as the tech. Said if it is an inverter type generator you shouldn’t have any worry with unusual voltage.

Tom Marty