Is A 3/4 Ton PU A Viable TV For 5th Wheel - Montana Owners Club

oldudbob · 05-07-2005, 08:25 AM

My tow vehicle is a 2004 Silverado 2500HD, D/A, CC, LB. I stopped at a CAT scale this morning and had it weighed. With me, the wife and a full tank of diesel on board it weighed 7,640 lbs. Does that sound right? The GVWR on my truck is 9,200 lbs. Therefore, 9,200 lbs. less the actual weight of 7,640 lbs. appears to only leave me the ability to carry an additional 1,560 lbs.

We are in the market for a Montana 5th wheeler and had been looking at those in the 32’ to 36’ range that have a pin weight of around 1,800 to 2,200 lbs. A lot of you are currently pulling 5th wheels of this size with ¾ ton trucks. Are you all exceeding you TV's GVWR?

I would be interested in hearing from ¾ ton truck owners that are pulling 5th wheelers with a pin weight of 1,800 lbs or more. Does this present a problem?

Any and all input is greatly appreciated.

lightningjack11 · 05-07-2005, 12:39 PM

There are a lot of people out there that exceed their truck GVWR. My truck with extended cab weighs right at 6000 lbs with one tank full. I don't have extras like 4 wheel drive that add to the weight. My measured pin weight is about 2350 which means I am real close. I have measured my truck twice with a fully loaded monty and it come in at 86-8700 on the truck axles. My GVWR is 8800.

Although I would not recommend that anybody exceed their GVWR there are things you can do. Air bags for the springs is one option. You might look at the 3400 model. The pinweight on this model appears lighter than mine.

If you decide to trade your truck I would get a 1 ton diesel.

sreigle · 05-07-2005, 02:18 PM

As you noted, many of us are towing heavy Montanas with 3/4 ton trucks. Our Montana has one of the heaviest pinweights and GVWR and is very heavily loaded. We are over a little on GVWR, which is why I added airbags. However, we are within all other ratings including the truck's GAWR rear axle rating. That's one that's easy to overlook and the one I'd be concerned about.
The GAWR should be on the sticker on the door jamb. Also, make sure your tires are rated for the weight. I assume on your 3/4 ton they're ok.

Depending on which model you get you may or may not need the airbags. The pinweight in the brochure tends to be a bit optimistic on most models. We've had some folks with the 3400RL and the 3500RL report their pinweight is close to the advertised numbers but the other models seem to be higher than advertised. Ours is 3,120 at last weighing. It was around 2700 when we were weekending/vacationing.

Countryfolks · 05-08-2005, 09:24 AM

I don't have a 3/4t but, look at payload capacities also if overall capacities and capabilities are a concern. You're looking at a numbers game that I haven't figured out yet; fully loaded weight, being within GVWR, axle ratings, etc. and being over on payload capacity. Note that the manufacturers of extra springs, airbags, etc. state they do not change vehicle ratings, they allow you to level the TV if needed. That said, there are many folks pulling with the newer 3/4t's and apparently having no problems. An option to the 1t dually vs a 3/4t is the 1t SRW vehicles available that combine many of the positive features of each. Have fun sorting through the variety of input you receive and matching it to your requirements.

Skip

stiles watson · 05-08-2005, 11:43 AM

There are many who may disagree with me. However, I when I checked Ford's published data, the features of Fords F350 and compared them to the features of the F250, I found the same transmission, the same engine, the same rated axle the same sized wheels and brakes, and the same GCWR. With the extra leaf in the springs, the larger and heavier rated tires, the exhaust brake, and the Hypertech Programmer III, I call it my stealth 1-ton. So far this 2002 F250 has been steady as a rock. Of course I would like a new, higher rated truck, like the custom Freightliner or the big Volvo, but I still have 200,000 miles to go on this one.

trukdoc · 05-08-2005, 02:29 PM

We have a 2005 Ford F250SD with the auto trans, tow package and 6.0 PS diesel. We pull a 328 RLS 5er that is almost 35 feet long, and I have to watch my speed because it tows so effortlessly.
By the owners manual, I am nowhere near overloading as far as CGWR. Pin weight however is where you have to watch.

Montana_2048 · 05-09-2005, 03:15 PM

Hey Stiles....

I have the same rv as you do and wonder if you have weighed your rig? I'll be weighing mine over mem day weekend and am afraid I'll be in for a shock with the genset and w/d installed.....

Regards;

sreigle · 05-09-2005, 04:08 PM

Roy and Mae, please post the numbers when you get them. That kind of information is always valuable to many of us. I have to tell you I was shocked at the weight of ours but we are very heavily loaded, washer/dryer, etc. No generator, though. That should take your pinweight up a couple of notches, assuming the genset is in the front compartment.

You probably already know your 2003 3670RL Big Sky has a GVWR of 14,100. So long as you're not over that number you're ok on the trailer part.

stiles watson · 05-09-2005, 06:14 PM

Bigsk

One of the reasons I don't have the generator is a concern about the added weight. If I do add gen power, it will be twin Hondas EU 2000 to string together. I haven't located the public scales in my area. Weighing is on my agenda when I get one of those "round toits".

Another reason is we haven't been fully loaded. With my wife's retirement in three weeks, we have a long "to-do" list awaiting us. Weighing with a full load is gonig to be at the top of the list at some point, probably in conjunction with our trip to North Carolina to see the five (soon to be six) grandchildren who live there.

Montana Sky · 05-09-2005, 06:16 PM

I tow the 3400RL with my 2500HD Crew Cab short bed truck and have not had any issues yet. Just got back from towing the coach and took an average mpg at 14.7 The truck comes in at 7,400lbs with full fuel, two people, my Superglide hitch and some odd and end pieces of wood used to level coach. The truck and coach together has a GCVWR of 20,500lbs. I could not be happier with this truck & coach.

oldudbob · 05-11-2005, 11:43 AM

Montana Sky:

I guess the weight of 7,640 lbs. is right since mine is a long bed and your is a short bed at 7,400 lbs. Mine was weighed without a 5th wheel hitch which will add about 100 lbs. more. I guess I will just have to exceed my GVWR a bit in order to have a 5th wheel that we can live with.

The 3400RL is probably the model will will purchase if we go with a Montana.

Montana Sky · 05-11-2005, 06:19 PM

Oldudbob,
With my truck coming in at 7,400lbs and my kingpin weight being 1,897(1,900lbs) that puts me right at 9,300lbs or 100lbs over GVWR. But the I do not use just that number, this is my opinion. I am not over the Rear GAWR of 6,084lbs, I am not over my 13,770lbs GVWR of the coach and I am also not over my GCVWR of 22,000lbs on the truck, so being over on the GVWR does not concern me as much. I really think you will enjoy the 3400RL. It is a great floor plan that has worked for me and many others on the forum. Best of luck on your buying decision.

oldudbob · 05-12-2005, 10:40 AM

Montana Sky: Thanks for the input. I will keep you abreast of our decision regarding the purchase of a 5th wheel. How do you like your TV? I really like ours. We have had it almost 18 months and have put about 13,000 miles on it and not had any problems. I have a good friend (JBAR)who has a 2003 3500HD, CC, LB, D/A with about 80,000 miles on it and he hasn't had any problems either.

Montana Sky · 05-12-2005, 07:00 PM

Oldudbob~
I have had my 04 Chevy now for 17 months this month and have almost 26,000 on it. Before this one I had a 2003 exact same truck that was rolled off a cliff in Montana due to blizzard and a speeding semi. I figured if I could have that happen to me and walk away with only 2 minor cuts I knew I first had to thank God for the hand in that, as well as Chevy for building one heck of a truck. That truck had 20,000 miles on it and was only 11 months old. Between the two I have 46,000 miles and I have loved every mile. When the time comes to buy another truck, I know for sure it will be another Chevy with the Duramax Diesel w/ the Allison transmission. =)

Montana_2048 · 05-14-2005, 04:44 PM

Our 03 3670 weight results are in....

Our rig has the "artic insulation package" (as I'm sure most do), both ac units, the splendide w/d combo in the upper closet, onan 3600 propane genset, 2 group 24 and 1 group 27 batteries, loaded with supplies, full water and propane etc..... Weighed in at 13,580 so I should still have 600 lbs to play with there.

The pin weight on the truck ended up being 2940 lbs with the gvw of the truck being 9960 lbs. This was done with 2 people and full fuel. If my figures are correct, I'm over about 200 lbs on the pin weight but (gulp) closer to 760 lbs on the gvw. That is still before I ad the "transfer flow" tank/toolbox combo which will ad another 350 lbs when loaded. The tv handles the rig like a dream and the only changes I'm looking at are adding airbags (to ease the jarring on the suspension though it sits and rides great as is) and increasing the tire width (without changing rims)....

Any thoughts or suggestions???

Countryfolks · 05-14-2005, 07:10 PM

BibSk, with a pin weight of 2940, you're probably more over the payload cap than you think. maybe closer to 800# than 200#.

Skip

Montana_2048 · 05-14-2005, 07:43 PM

Thanks Skip... I got the 2734 off of the tag on my door frame... (Total cargo and passengers)

BillyRay · 05-14-2005, 11:10 PM

there is no doubt the truck would handle it. even if you are overweight (not that I would ever recomend being overweight) the truck is built to handle it. I personally went with the 3500 and am glad that I did.

Montana_2048 · 05-15-2005, 06:45 AM

When I went shopping for my tv in early 74 I knew it had to be something that the wife would be comfortable driving (w/o the rv). That left the longbed (and def the dually) out of the picture especially when I found (on gm's website) that the max towing capacity of the 2500HD d/a w/ 3.73's ext cab 4x4 was 15,500 vrs the 3500 d/a 4x4 (single wheel) was 100 lbs LESS... Go figure.... the 1 tn does have 500 lbs more on the pin weight capacities but I didn't think that would be an issue based on the "book" hitch weight of the 3670. I guess bottom line is I didn't realize how easy it would be to exceed the max. (Forgot to ad in the previous post that I had slide-toppers installed on all three slides as well). I actually held off for a year waiting to see if gmc was ready to include quad-steer with the 3/4 tons... I test drove one overnight and was instantly SOLD! That is def the way to go and prob would be the only rig I would trade for. They have a way to go prior to releasing a 2500HD version (especially with the d/a combo)

Thanks for the input!

fc5v · 05-15-2005, 01:02 PM

Hello, I have a 2004 GMC 2005HD CC with Duramax/Allison I tow a 2003 Montana 3255. I got a 04 Trailering guide from my GM dealer. It showes You can tow a trailer with max. weight of 15,700 lbs. with a fifth-wheel or gooseneck hitch. When I loaded mine with fire wood in the bed and water in tanks just to see what it would weight. It scaled out at Steer axle: 4140lb, Drive axle :6160lb, Trailer axle :9360lb. I love the way the Duramax and The Allison Trans.
work together while towing my 5th wheel.

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