Pa class A noncommercial license - Montana Owners Club

greener · 11-20-2008, 10:29 AM

Just FYI we both got our permits for the class A noncommercial license. $5 cost, no physical required and no knowledge test. Skills test is required. The permit is good for 12 months. You need this if your combined gross weight is over 26,001#. It`s based on the gross sticker weight rating for both tow vehichle and the trailer. So if you have a 1 ton truck and a big Montana you will be over. Know of a driver who was stopped in N.C. last fall and fined for not having this endorsement. Check your weight ratings.

H. John Kohl · 11-20-2008, 11:30 AM

I have a one ton and 14000 lb Montana. My combined weight is 23000. My truck is registered for 26000 and I do plan on getting the CDL. The licensing used the gross total of both vehicles. My cushion is the 3000 lb hitch weight.
Unless they had a Bigsky I am not sure how they were over weight.
cheers,

Delaine and Lindy · 11-20-2008, 12:47 PM

Did they weight them before the ticket? Also was it a Diesel cop or just a HWY patrol? However I do believe almost any 5th wheel weighing over 16,000 gross being towed by a GM 1 ton will be over gross. GBY.....

richfaa · 11-20-2008, 03:13 PM

Well at least a skills test is required..that is a good thing. Perhaps other states will follow. I don't think any Montana and a 1 ton truck will be over 26,001 lbs?? My truck is rated for 23,300lbs. Curious..Does PA weigh RV's????

greener · 11-21-2008, 02:08 AM

To clear up the weight question, they go by the RATED weight not actual weight. With our previous F350 SRW we weighed 20,700 on the scale. Well under max weight but over if they look at the GVWR.11,000+15595=26,595#= over the 26,000# allowed for class C license. They look at the weight rating stickers on the TV and trailer. So our F450 is rated for 14,500# and the Montana 15,595# = 30,095#. They don`t need to weigh you, just read the GVWR. Pa. isn`t checking weights yet that I know of.

Delaine and Lindy · 11-21-2008, 02:17 AM

Well have never weight a Montana but I know what the Cambridge 358 weight was with the Chevy 3500 1 ton DRW hooked to the Cambridge the Gross weight was 25,600 and no water! Guess the Montana's isn't as heavy. I have also found that most people don't post their weights. And most don't put their 5th wheel on a platform scale (Cat Scale). My Chevy 3500 when ready to tow, the weight is 8,560 lbs. It would be interesting to know if they weight him before the ticket. I think its very important to know you weight and carry a copy or the Cat Scale, remember the Cat Scale weight is garranted.

Looking at the shipping wt of the Big Sky 340RLQ is 13,315 and the carring capacity is 3,320. So if those numbers are correct and you do load to capacity, your gross weight hooked to a 3500 1 ton will be approx (my Truck 8,560) 25,195. But you will be under the 26,001. My weight was a lot more then than now because we were full timing and carry a lot of stuff we didn't use or need.

The above is just something to think about. I have traveled many miles driving a Big Truck and I have never seen a RV being weight by the DOT. As for testing I don't know if we should be or not. However I have to take a Physical to renew my CDL Class A with indorsements. I agree some for sure needs to be tested, just sit in any RV park and watch. GBY...

greener · 11-21-2008, 02:51 AM

To clarfy this, the ticket was recieved in North Carolina in a random check. He was ticketed because he didn`t have a class A endorsement not because he was actually overweight. His GVWR on TV and trailer exceeded 26,000#. So if you are a Pa. driver you can be legal if you get the permit from Pa. For $5 you can save yourself a couple hundred dollar fine. It can be renewed every year if you don`t take the skills test, just like our motorcycle permit.

H. John Kohl · 11-21-2008, 03:23 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by greener

To clarfy this, the ticket was recieved in North Carolina in a random check. He was ticketed because he didn`t have a class A endorsement not because he was actually overweight. His GVWR on TV and trailer exceeded 26,000#. So if you are a Pa. driver you can be legal if you get the permit from Pa. For $5 you can save yourself a couple hundred dollar fine. It can be renewed every year if you don`t take the skills test, just like our motorcycle permit.

I registered my truck in PA for 26000 lbs (that is why the truck costs $405 a year for registration) and the registrations states max gross of both is 26256 (the sum of both gross vehicle weights). So I do not need the endorsement unless my registered weight is 260001 or more. I do plan on getting it next spring when I am back there. Just to eliminate any discussion.

richfaa · 11-21-2008, 03:46 AM

Now I understand..Thanks for he explanation. According to the sticker on my truck the GVWR is 13,000lbs and the 3400 is 13975..total 26975lbs.
I also drive a commercial vehicle and since the RV is not commercial is not subject to any commercial rules or regulations. I have seen Rv's checked for safety violations AFTER being pulled over for something else. I am by the way 100% in favor of driving skills testing and safety and weight regulations for rv'ers. When I took my yearly physical this year for my School bus certification my blood pressure was above the max allowed of 140/80 and my certification was denied. I could not drive...any commerical vehicle. But I could jump in the Rv and drive 22K plus down the road......no problem... I had to see my physician take a series of test to determne the cause and am on medication to conrol that problem and the doctors certification was required to regain my cerification to drive.. Same thing next year.... Who needs that to drive a RV???

HamRad · 11-21-2008, 04:55 AM

I just had to renew my DL in California. I have the RV endorsement. In CA you are required to have the endorsement if your trailer weighs over 10K but under 15,001. Over 15,001 you need a non commercial class A.

With the endorsement you do not normally have to get a medical cert. from a doctor; But if you have certain health conditions, HBP, diabetes, eyesight problems, stroke, or other passing out situations.... etc.. OR if you take certain meds. Since I have been taking some heavy duty meds I ended up last time having to actually take a driving test.

Ended up being no problem but I was really worried. This time I just had to complete a questionnaire. I'm waiting for my DL to make certain they include the endorsement. When I took the written test I did not notice any specific RV type questions. I asked the agent about that and she said since I was required to answer the health questionnaire everything should be OK. We'll see.

By the way I have no problem with this process. I just wish the agents knew a bit more about the RV endorsement process. The first time around I had to tell them how the process was to work. Took them over and hour to finally even find what I was required to do.

I have never personally known of anyone having a problem with not having the endorsement. The only reason I got mine was because I read on the Escapees Forum about some CA HWY Patrol stopping an RV for something and in the process discovered the trailer was over the 10,001 limit and the driver had no endorsement. They were requiring the fellow to drop the trailer and go get the endorsement! That would not be any fun at all.

Dennis

greener · 11-21-2008, 05:39 AM

Quote:

quote:[i]Originally posted by H. John KohlI registered my truck in PA for 26000 lbs (that is why the truck costs $405 a year for registration) and the registrations states max gross of both is 26256 (the sum of both gross vehicle weights). So I do not need the endorsement unless my registered weight is 260001 or more. I do plan on getting it next spring when I am back there. Just to eliminate any discussion.

Your registration and drivers license are 2 different things. Your truck would be legal but you wouldn`t be legal driving it. Hopefully they won`t start checking here in Pa.

HamRad · 11-21-2008, 08:22 AM

Well guess what I got in the mail today! Yep! My new DL. AND it had the RV endorsement on it. Not only that but it is good for a full 5 years! Yea! Now I won't have to go back every couple of years to renew. Guess they figured I was no longer an imminent threat!

Anyway I'm all set and legal!

See you on down the road.

Dennis

TLightning · 11-21-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by greener

To clear up the weight question, they go by the RATED weight not actual weight. With our previous F350 SRW we weighed 20,700 on the scale. Well under max weight but over if they look at the GVWR.11,000+15595=26,595#= over the 26,000# allowed for class C license. They look at the weight rating stickers on the TV and trailer. So our F450 is rated for 14,500# and the Montana 15,595# = 30,095#. They don`t need to weigh you, just read the GVWR. Pa. isn`t checking weights yet that I know of.

This just goes to show you that they know nothing about 5th wheels. My truck GVWR is 11,400 and the Montana is 14,000. However, 2,500 of the Montana's weight is in the truck...they are counting that weight twice.

rames14 · 11-29-2008, 01:25 PM

I am confused. Are you saying that as a Wisconsin resident, I would get a ticket in South Carolina or Pennsylvania if I didn't get their non commercial license? Or is this up to the individual states? To the best of my knowledge, Wisconsin does not have this. I just got my DL and plates a year and a half ago and they didn't say anything about a non-commercial Class A. Inquiring minds want to know.

KathyandDave · 11-29-2008, 03:32 PM

I've noticed that these issues come up over and over again on the MOC, but the wisdom of earlier posts gets lost. Would it make sense to have a category about licensing, permits and safe weights?

Delaine and Lindy · 11-30-2008, 03:43 AM

This has came up very often, Lic and weight I thinks its less than 5 States that are even considering a indorsement and if your in that State then you will have to comply. And most States accepts other States. And if your going to be in that said State, for extended stays you might need to check the Law in that State.

I can assure you if this is talked about some pencil pusher will see MONEY to be made and will come after you to get more money. Since the RVer's are in the minority they can and will get more money from us. There is talk in our State now of raising the Fuel tax on Gas/Diesel and everyone knows what happens then, just another way to take our money and waste it. Your State requirement is the Law you will have to follow as for Lic. I was forced to get a Commerical Lic (Class A) so I'm not really worried about the Lic problem. GBY.....

richfaa · 11-30-2008, 04:13 AM

"I was forced to get a Commercial Lic (Class A) so I'm not really worried about the Lic problem. GBY....." You might have to worry. I also have the CDL licesnse..however the so called State CDL's that I have seen are different enough so that the Federal CDL does not cover the RV portion and therefore does not apply. We would still have to get the State CDL.. The Federal CDL does not cover RV's and as was explained in another post by the Federal standards the Rv can never be over weight. IMO all States will soon jump on the band wagon once they realize the money that can be made by RV'ers who have little regard for safety or weight requirements.Like most everything else if there are no rules or regulations we do whatever we want to do.If we have State laws directed toward Rv'ers it will be primarily our fault. We always blame someone else..but as has been said..." We have met the enemy and he is us"

Waynem · 11-30-2008, 05:48 AM

Rich,

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

..however the so called State CDL's that I have seen are different enough so that the Federal CDL does not cover the RV portion and therefore does not apply. We would still have to get the State CDL..

I get confused easily. Are you saying that my CDL will not cover my RV? Would it not cover my automobile? Is that just PA.

"1986: Congress enacts Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986, creating a new, federal Commercial Drivers License. By the early 1990s, states nationwide had implemented the law. School bus industry lobbied to make school bus drivers subject to the law." (from - School Bus Transportation News)

As I understand it, the federal law came into existence because truckers were carrying licenses from different states. When they got a ticket, they just used a different license if they got stopped again. Having a CDL does not mean you have a different license to drive different classes of automobiles, but does mean you can drive anything "up to and including," what you are licensed for and have endorsements.

There are 3 CDL Classes: (excerpt from CDL Handbook)
Quoted:
"Different Classes of Commercial Driver Licenses
There are three (3) basic types or classes of Commercial Driver Licenses. They are described below. For further information,
refer to the diagram on page ix. This diagram helps a person determine which class of license he/she needs and which section(s) of the handbook to study.

CLASS A: Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating of the vehicle or vehicles towed exceeds 10,000 pounds;

CLASS B: Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, any one of those vehicles towing a vehicle that does not exceed 10,000 pounds gross vehicle weight rating, and any vehicle designed to transport 24 passengers or more, including the driver; and a Class B license will be restricted to operating busses under 26,001 pounds GVWR if the skills test is taken in a bus with a GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds; and

CLASS C: Any single vehicle or combination of vehicles that is not a Class A or Class B if the vehicle is:

1) designed to transport 16 to 23 passengers including the driver; or
2) used in the transportation of hazardous materials that require the vehicle to be placarded under 49 CFR, Part 172, Subpart F."

I am not trying to be argumentative, just get totally confused when this topic comes up. I do agree that there should be a special thread for licensing, and one for weights.

Heeellllllp!

Glenn and Lorraine · 11-30-2008, 06:18 AM

All I know is all states have a reciprocal agreement amongst themselves. Meaning if I am legal in Florida I am also legal in any other state including SC & PA
A good example is pulling a trailer with a trailer. If it is legal to pull a trailer with a trailer in your home state, state of registration, by reciprocal agreement it is legal in all states.
I am not calling anyone a liar BUT In all my years of driving I have never seen one state enforcing another states driving laws. It would be a near impossibility for a SC cop to know all the driving laws of the other states.

richfaa · 11-30-2008, 06:33 AM

It is very confusing.What you quote is the Federal CDL License. It is uniform throughout the country. My Ohio Drivers License is a Ohio Drivers license same as any Ohio drivers license execpt that at the top it says..Commerical Drivers License. It is really two drivers licenses. One Ohio mandated by Ohio...One commerical mandated by the Federal Governmnet. Example:: I can not get a Florida drivers license without giving up my Ohio license because Federal law says you can NOT have TWO drivers licenses from different States.Helen can get a Florida license and keep her Ohio license because she does NOT have a CDL... I would have to give up my Ohio license and The Federal CDL would follow the license as One has nothing to do with the other..Confusing???? You bet..

Some States require a CDL for rv's but it is not a Real CDL and it would not be good to haul intersate commerical. It should rightly be called a RV endorsement.

IF I lived in PA and had a PA drvers license and a Federal mandated CDL It would not cover the requirement for the so called PA CDL fr RV's.

Note that Hamrad described his new DL as having a "RV endorsement"..which is the corect term and would Be the same as MY MC Endorsement on my Ohio License. I think we wrongly call these State requirements CDL's when they are not..remember the [C] Stands for COMMERICAL. If you are not pulling a Commerical vehical or pulling for hire you do NOT have or need a Federal Mandated CDL. No matter what the State calls them..they are NOT CDL,s...how is that for confusing???

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