Warranty service obligation??? - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

dsprik · 01-24-2006, 05:43 PM

Sounds like this could be a potential problem if someone is cross country with their Montana, has a warranty issue, and runs into a dealer who flat out tells them, "Sorry - if you didn't buy it here..." (pretty sure I heard that someone here had heard something like that from a dealer?)...

While I understand that many dealers around the country seem to have a good faith understanding, Keystone apparently felt they could not support a network of dealers doing warranty work. Therefore, they are putting their faith in Good Samaritan dealers to "voluntarily" do warranty work on out of town RVers.

But it still comes down to the fact that if you cannot make it back to your selling dealer, you are LEGALLY unprotected, and there is NO obligation of a non-selling AUTHORIZED Montana dealer to get you back on the road without a lot of cash coming out of your pocket - if they will even work on your Montana in the first place.

While I understand that, "That's just the way the system is...", I'm sorry, I just don't think it's a good deal. Going for years without a problem is nice to hear from RVers, but I really don't think we should have the additional stress put on us, trying to make calls to dealers, hoping the are in the majority.

Seriously, how many out there ever had a warranty issue on the road, and when you went to pick up the phone, had just a LITTLE extra stress - a little extra kick in the gut, praying this dealer you about call doesn't give you a hard time? None of you??? Great!!! THAT stress should never happen. I don't think that you can justify loading that extra worry on a new owner of a $40K-$45K investment - on top of the stress they are already feeling in their particular situation. I think new owners need to feel a little more comfortable in the knowledge that they don't have to worry while on the road - that Keystone/Montana's support is conditional.

One other thing... Someone mentioned private auto warranty issues away from the selling dealer. I believe they mentioned that it also is a similar system.. they don't HAVE to do warranty work on vehicles they didn't sell. Even if true, this is a poor comparison. The AVERAGE privately owned car/SUV/pickup does NOT range out of the area over 30 miles over most of their warranty lifetime. They are used primarily for going back and forth to work and the occassional family vacation (unless they have an RV). That means that for ~90% of their use, if a warranty issue pops up, they are near their dealer ANYWAY.

Now let's take RV usage. Anyone already guessing what's coming?

If someone stayed within a 30 mile radius of their home, while using their RV for 90% of the warranty life, I'd say that that person/couple/family paid a LOT of $$$ for no return on their RV. Many RVers are FT or longtime and most others get out of town/county/state for their RV usage. This means that any warranty issues that will occur, have a very high probability of occurring far from the selling dealer. This is fine if it is a non-critical component, that can wait until you can get back home. But sometimes it is a critical repair that makes usage/towing dangerous/difficult, if not impossible.

There is no comparison between an RV and a private auto, as to where they will be generally located, under normal operating conditions, relative to their selling dealer, when a warranty issue arises. The primary function of an RV, as a rule, precludes being anywhere near the dealer you bought the unit from.

Doesn't mean I won't buy a Montana... just means I take my chances just like everyone else. But... I'm still not going to drive my car around w/o car insurance because "most of the time there won't be a problem..." I'm still not covered.

I am not an RV expert, by any means. This is just what this looks like on the surface to me, and please keep in mind that this is JMHO.

After thought:
People are getting by with their new RVs - some are unhappy (some REALLY unhappy), but most seem to be getting through their warranty period without major difficulty. I have only heard of one couple that had an early unhappy experience and sold their RV and went back to their stick house living.

I fully expect Cheryl and my RV lifestyle to be an exclamation point on our lives, and that it will be satisfying beyond what the average "rut/coach potato" type of person will ever imagine. We'll make it through the "speed bumps" of RVing.

Abe Lincoln said, "A person is just about as happy as they make up their mind to be."

AMEN!

Montana Sky · 01-24-2006, 09:12 PM

Well here is something else to throw into the pot. If you buy an extended warranty (as I did) you also have a little protection from them as well. The warranty company I went with knows that rv's are meant to be on the road and you are not always going to be by your home/selling dealership when something goes wrong. The first thing I will do if the need ever arises is call a local dealership in the area that sells Montana and ask them if they can get my coach in for service. If I cannot find a dealership to service my coach, my next step is to call my warranty 800 number and they will assist me in finding an authorized repair shop to work on my coach. It is that simple, my warranty company gives the shop the authorization number to bill them with and when the work is done, the company pays the dealership right over the phone with their credit card, minus my deductible. When I hit the road for each of my trips I am not worried about something going wrong or getting it fixed. That could ruin the entire trip in itself, I know I have done all I can do to protect myself and my truck/coach. I focus more on finding diesel stations out here in the west coast and midwest areas. =)

richfaa · 01-25-2006, 02:18 AM

The RV warranty issue is something we all need to be aware of and this is a good discussion. A few days ago I posted a conversation I had with a dealer and very good friend of mine on the warranty issue.Of course the selling dealer will give preference to his customers. They are potential return customers and they will most likely use the dealership for service and purchase RV supplies there. Our hometown dealer gives 10% discount to customers who bought there.Warranty work is NOT the prime source of dealer income in the RV business, many manufacturers pay below the hourly rate for warranty work and take their time in paying.. However He did say that if you pulled into a dealership in Ohio with say Texas plates on your TV and RV the vast majority of dealers ANTWHERE WOULD perform the warranty work..He knows that you are "not from around here" He looks with disfavor at the guy who buys 50 miles down the road to save 500.00. Then comes to him with Warranty work that from the dealers point of view he loses money on.. The other issue is AFTER MARKET extended warranties. We always had extended warranties on our TV's .Example the GM extended Warranty and we will get the FOMOCO extended warranty. These are manufacture warranties that are extensions of the regular warranty. The RV industry has no such thing. With the quality issues it would not be cost effective for a RV company to do that so you have to be VERY careful about the extended warranty you buy...we WILL get a extended warranty on the new Montana ..after much homework on the companies involved.

My wrap up is that the warranty issue is something we need to be aware of because as others have said we spend the majority of our time AWAY from our selling dealer..however I do not think it is a MAJOR problem.It may cost us time and we will on occasion meet the "jerk" dealer.It would not be a bad idea to start a topic of.. Dealers who have turned us away for Warranty work We represent @ 5000 Keystone owners..If they don't want to deal with us why would we want, to buy a Keystone product from them, Or recommend anyone we know to buy one from them..

mobilrvn · 01-25-2006, 05:49 AM

Hola Amigos! Finally at a place where I can get on the MOC site. This is a very interesting thread for our viewpoint as fulltimers. We have gotten the full range of treatment over the last year and a half including a dealer cancelling us out at the last minute on our broken frame problem--we told all of you not to use this dealer. What I would like to see is a forum where we can list the good, the bad and the ugly. Reward the good with our business and deny the rest. This would be especially helpful to those away from home when a problem pops up.

sreigle · 01-26-2006, 09:32 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Northstar

So far in our travels we nave not experienced any problems getting warranty work done away from home. Perhaps we have been lucky. The biggest problem I've found ia once the work has been identifed, then it needs to be approved by Keystone customer service center before the work can be accomplished. This can take several days. But that is the joy of rving

We found out the hard way there is a Regional guy (Service Manager?) between the dealers and the Montana corporate offices. In our first month of fulltiming we were in the San Diego area. On the trip out our door step kept unfolding on the road, until we bungeed it. We went to Beaudry RV in San Marcos as we were ready to leave the area. They told us the step needed to be replaced, that they were told it cannot effectively be fixed by crimping down on the pivot points. They wrote on the invoice that it needs to be replaced and they had ordered it.

We had to decline as we were leaving the area and said we'd get it replaced by our dealer in Kansas City in July when we got there. Our KC dealer said he would tighten the pivot points. I pointed out Keystone does not consider that an acceptable fix. He called later and said his Regional guy said tighten it and they'd not replace the step. I showed our dealer the paperwork from Beaudry. He explained different regions have different regional people over them. He copied our paperwork and faxed it to his regional guy who a couple of days later approved replacing the step.

So, there's another layer in there that may differ from region to region.

By the way, in March we mark 3 years of fulltiming and so far have covered around 40,000 miles. We've had no problem at all getting service from Montana dealers. There probably are some that would be a problem but we've not found them. I think I'd ask for the name and number of their regional service manager and that would be my next contact. I hope it never happens. So far, it hasn't.

Dustytuu · 01-26-2006, 12:57 PM

We bought our Montana new from a Texas dealership that was recommended to us. Have not been disappointed but they are 400 miles from where we live in CO. We use DelCamino Montana dealership in Longmont, CO. for our warranty work. They have treated us very well. They did some things we didn't expect. They even cleaned our furnace and put it back in. Did some cosmetic extra things too. We were only charged for putting an extra door latch on sliding door into living area. It had been coming open when traveling. Everything else was warranty issues. They fixed a drawer, adjusted our sound system, checked out our fridge, fixed a duct problem with the airconditioner.
They also fixed hail damage on our Wildcat 5th wheel. Before we bought the new Montana. Insurance paid for that. They don't sell
Wildcat either.
We had our Montana out of there in less than a week. Also the Wildcat was done in less than a week. They have gone well beyond good service.

DelCaminoRV@yahoo.com We would recommend them.

richfaa · 01-26-2006, 02:18 PM

I was guessing that warranty service while traveling was not a huge issue and I am encouraged to hear the positive comments .

bigbob7777 · 01-26-2006, 05:55 PM

When I was looking for my Montana, I found the one I wanted in Missouri. Since I lived in Texas, I wanted to give Lonestar Rv the opportunity to match or beat the price. They wouldn't come within $4k and they had 3 of these on their lot.

Well, I bought in Missouri. Driving it home, I stayed at a campground just north of Houston. The campground electrician did some work at the sight and blew a fuse (I didn't know this was what happened at the time) in the converter.

I called Lonestar Rv and asked them if they would look at my unit. They said "our owner told us not to work on any unit not purchased here". I asked him what would happen if someone bought the unit there, but had this happen in Missouri. He said "well that would be a problem, wouldn't it?" I told him this was a pretty nasty strategy, and that I would buy in Australia before I ever bought even a hose from them.

I then called Keystone and they verified that dealers were under no obligation to do this work. However, they got on a three way phone with me and tried to find a dealer that would do the warranty work. We couldn't get it in sooner than a month anywhere. This rep then said he would send me a brand new converter after I said I would try to install it. I did and it worked.

I was totally happy with this service and would definately buy from them again.

bob

Montana Sky · 01-26-2006, 09:13 PM

I have never understood the policy of "if you did not buy from us, we wont service your coach." The service department will make or break any dealership, that is where you build your "customers for life." Think about this, if the average dealership makes approx $2,000-3,000 from an rv sale. If you bring your rv to their service shop bought there or not and spend an average of $450-500 per year in service and accessories from them along with any warranty money they would bring in an additional $3,000 over a 4-5yr span. And what do most of us do when we go to a dealer for service, we walk the lot and look at all the new inventory and I know I usually walk every aisle in the parts store and end up buying at least 1 item if not more. If the people at the shop are good to you, when the time comes where are you most likely to go first for another Montana?? The place that has earned your trust by providing top notch service to your current coach. Gain a customer respect and trust, gain a customer for life. Sorry I will get off my soap box now. I just dont understand some business thinking...

steves · 01-27-2006, 02:48 AM

I've had warranty work performed by two different RV repair centers (none of which I purchase from) and have had absolutely no problem. I've always, in advance, contacted Keystone and informed them of my need and intetions....again no problems.

sreigle · 01-30-2006, 10:03 AM

Montana Sky, my bet would be they make more money on non-warranty service work than on warranty work. I'd bet Keystone pays them less than they'd get for that same amount of time on non-warranty work. Just a guess but it stands to reason. You want to sell our number one selling brand then here's what you'll accept for warranty work. That's how I'd do it anyhow.

old turbo · 01-30-2006, 10:25 AM

The extended warranty is fine, if you buy it just before your factory warranty expires. If you buy the extended warranty when you purchase the trailer,the warranty company gets your money fee for a year and gets interest on your money also, because they will not cover anything on a new trailer until the factory warranty expires. Check out the extended warranty fine print before you purchase, or call them and ask their coverage policy.

Montana Sky · 01-30-2006, 01:08 PM

Steve,
You are probably right I just cannot get my head around that concept. Guess it was all those college professors teaching the opposite.

dsprik · 01-30-2006, 05:49 PM

I not sure that's a good business tactic in the long term, Steve. If Keystone/Montana leverages their dealers to take less on warranty work, I believe that would create a hostile environment between the dealer and the consumer who gets the door shut in their face, due to a rebellious dealer who grudgingly accepted this deal, or a dealer who let's his bottom line override customer service. Of course, there will still be the wise dealer who IS consumer oriented, and who will continue to service any Montana owner who needs help, regardless of whether or not Keystone is deliberately shorting the dealership on warranty issues. Consumers, in turn, become angry enough to switch brands.

Any company needs to have a smooth, frictionless bond between mfr, dealer, and consumer. If any of these interfaces start to get a little rough around the edges, decline in sales will be a direct result. You know the drill - word of mouth - about the fourth or fifth person who relays that a dealer cussed at an owner, will comment that Keystone is filling for Chapter 11. Kinda like the "Butterfly Effect".

Keystone HAS to do everything in their power to prevent a hostile environment between their dealers and the consumer. If they do not CONSTANTLY have their finger on the conumers' pulse, they lose. There are a LOT of RV brands that would relish knocking Keystone off their pedastal. No sense painting a bullseye on your chest on purpose.

AND... "Because the other guy does it too...", is one of the most infantile, stupid business practices that there is (Seriously... don't you hear that from your kids???). Raise your hand if you have ever heard a businessman or businesswoman defend the way they do business by making a very similar statement??? "That's the way everyone else does it...".

Like my Dad used to say, "Just because that company goes off a cliff, does that mean that you're supposed to follow???"

With all that said, Steve may have descibed EXACTLY what's going on. That would be sad.

richfaa · 01-31-2006, 02:23 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by dsprik

I not sure that's a good business tactic in the long term, Steve. If Keystone/Montana leverages their dealers to take less on warranty work, I believe that would create a hostile environment between the dealer and the consumer who gets the door shut in their face, due to a rebellious dealer who grudgingly accepted this deal, or a dealer who let's his bottom line override customer service. Of course, there will still be the wise dealer who IS consumer oriented, and who will continue to service any Montana owner who needs help, regardless of whether or not Keystone is deliberately shorting the dealership on warranty issues. Consumers, in turn, become angry enough to switch brands.

Any company needs to have a smooth, frictionless bond between mfr, dealer, and consumer. If any of these interfaces start to get a little rough around the edges, decline in sales will be a direct result. You know the drill - word of mouth - about the fourth or fifth person who relays that a dealer cussed at an owner, will comment that Keystone is filling for Chapter 11. Kinda like the "Butterfly Effect".

Keystone HAS to do everything in their power to prevent a hostile environment between their dealers and the consumer. If they do not CONSTANTLY have their finger on the conumers' pulse, they lose. There are a LOT of RV brands that would relish knocking Keystone off their pedastal. No sense painting a bullseye on your chest on purpose.

AND... "Because the other guy does it too...", is one of the most infantile, stupid business practices that there is (Seriously... don't you hear that from your kids???). Raise your hand if you have ever heard a businessman or businesswoman defend the way they do business by making a very similar statement??? "That's the way everyone else does it...".

Like my Dad used to say, "Just because that company goes off a cliff, does that mean that you're supposed to follow???"

With all that said, Steve may have descibed EXACTLY what's going on. That would be sad.

Well said Dave..I just can't stand it when folks defend poor workmanship on the Montana by saying well everybodey else does it. I don't care what everybody else does.I am not buying anybody elses camper..I am buying a Montana and I care about what they do.

\\Parent..Johnny why are you doing drugs..Well Mom all my friend are doing it..Oh well Ok..no problem .. Right...

sreigle · 02-10-2006, 07:47 AM

The name of the game is the bottom line. Dealers want to make as much profit as they can. If they can make more by selling the number one trailer and accepting a little less for warranty work than they can selling other brands, then it makes sense to do that. It also makes sense for Keystone to use the leverage of dealers clamoring to sell Montanas to get a better deal on warranty costs. That helps Montana's bottom line, too. It's a trade off many dealers are willing to make. Besides, I'd bet most mfr's have that same policy.

Next is the dealer's attitude towards warranty work. He has to service those he sold. I don't know if Keystone requires that but the dealer would not stay in business long if he doesn't. If that dealer's service business is at or near his capacity to do service work, why would he take on lower paying warranty work on rigs he didn't sell when he can keep all his service people busy on those he sold and on higher paying non-warranty service work? I realize some dealers take the high road and this doesn't apply.

This is all just conjecture and opinion, by the way.

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