Weight Question

[funtogo]

Hello All:
I have a Chevy 2006 2500HD cc 4x4 Duramax.It has a 60 gal. in bed fuel tank(400 lbs. full of fuel).What models beside the 2955rl can I safely tow? What about a triple slide ?

Thanks
Johnny

[Bob Pasternak]

Ah, yes... The weight police are going to come on here and tell you "nothing bigger than a 10' U-Haul" and then only if it is loaded with sail boat fuel, post holes or ping-pong balls.

[richfaa]

There are folks who will advise you to tow within the manufacturer stated ratings for your truck and those that will advise you to pay no
attention to all the stuff and just hook it up a go.You might wnat to do your own home work on the subject so you can make a decisison based on accepted fact.

[H. John Kohl]

funtogo,
First welcome to the forum and keep asking questions.
Your simple question does not have a simple answer. There are many topics on this subject. The reference to weight police is because many people are towing weights beyond their vehicle placard ratings. Those that are feel they are safe yet there are some that state that placard is the "LAW" and you are liable if you have an accident. The bottom line is you need to do the research (that is what I think you are trying to do here) and make up your own mind. Doing a search (using the search button up top for this forum) on Weight I found the following.
This one shows you what others are pulling with so that is their choice
A couple more topics out of many that it found.
http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=27645
http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=27391

As Bob eluded this is a sensitive topic to some.

[Glenn and Lorraine]

quote:this is a sensitive topic to some

and due to the "Weight Police" one that I no longer care to get involved in.

[stiles watson]

Hey, hey, Welcome aboard.

Good question, tough answer. Verbal wars have been fought over the answer. Some people have quit the forum because others didn't buy-in to their answers. It is a question that we all have dealt with in one way or another.

I have only owned Montana and pulled Montanas with three or more slides and 38' long. I have pulled with a 3/4-ton F250 and now I pull with a 1-ton F350. The F250 was adequate for the job. The previous owner pulled the 2003 Big Sky (with three slides) 8000 miles and I pulled it another 4000 with the F250. So I gave it a fair test.

My only concern (not major) became the braking ability of the F250. That braking ability was equal to the 1-ton SWD for that same year of manufacture. Now I have had a chance to compare it to the performance of a 2008 1-ton dually. The dually is better.

The engine is not normally an issue. Most manufactures use the same engine and drive train in 3/4-tons as in 1-tons. It is the suspension, braking and loading that causes concern. As afore mentioned, the braking is of utmost importance to me.

When I drove a 3/4-ton, I was a strong defender of it. I haven't changed my mind, but I will have to say there is a difference in the two. There is an added measure of braking power and the power to pull is improved because I have a more powerful engine in the 2008 F350 than the 2002 F250.

As has been stated, it is your decision. You will see that many of us use Ford, Dodge and Chevy 3/4-tons, while others use SRW and DRW 1-tons. If you want to see the spread, look at the poll of trucks driven. If it were me I would drive what I have and upgrade when it was doable. Happy RVing........

PS: I don't give a royal flip about the weight police.

[bsmeaton]

quote:Originally posted by funtogo
What models beside the 2955rl can I safely tow?

"Safe" is a tough answer. To figure out safe you either:

1) Stay within the manufacturer specifications and limitations

2) Believe in testimonials of others that exceed number 1

Here you will mostly find testimonials. Those that talk specifications are called "weight police". I guess I fall into "weight police" category. With that, I suspect that if you have to ask, you already know that you will exceed the payload of that truck even with a 2955 given the additional fuel weight.

PS - I don't give a royal flip what you tow with and I don't get intimidated by big type.

[exav8tr]

Johnny, Welcome to the "Best darned forum" on the www. I tow my 3400RL with a '05 Chevy D/A 2500 SB, Crew Cab Pickup. This is also my daily driver so I did not want a Dually. I did add an extra leaf spring on the rear and later added air bags. I, personally have had no problems with towing the hills or braking. I had two panic stops and everything went well. Many on this forum will say the 3/4's are not big enough. The key is to "know your truck and any limits it may have" and you will do fine. IF you feel you must be within "Dealer Specs" then by all means do so. Currently, to my knowledge, there is NO law that says you must be within dealer specs. Possibly a warranty issue though if a problem occurs. The bottom line is to listen to everyone, then make up your own mind.....Good Luck and be safe!!!!

[stiles watson]

Ok Brad,

First let me apologize if I hit one of your hot buttons. The remark was not intended to be incendiary, but rather to relieve pressure on those who have been blasted by the so called "weight police" with intelligence insulting comments, something I have never accused you of doing either publicly or privately.

As far as the different and slightly larger type, there is no effort to intimidate anyone. It is that way for those of us who wish everyone would use a larger type for ease of reading. It is a size 4 type, one size larger than the "normal", but makes it much easier to read for folks, like my wife, who have some level of vision problems.

[firetrucker]

I've driven emergency vehicles, large ones, for 25 years, and I know there are quite a few others on the forum with the same type of experience. That has made me extremely cautious, overly so at times, I'm sure. What it hasn't done is make me the perfect driver, which figures back in to how I drive and what I expect to see from other drivers.

I tend to concentrate on what I can reasonably control; that is the rig I'm driving and it's capabilities in my hands. Are we in good shape, and how will we react in the emergency situations that we'll encounter. Overloaded or underloaded doesn't mean much after you've had the accident, except to the police and insurance companies that may want to use that information against you. But, if you're overloaded and driving like you're underloaded, your chances of having an accident are way better than those of winning any lottery.

Don't listen to what the salesmen say: look around in the forums at what experienced drivers have done to their rigs to make them more stable, safer, and more comfortable. And, occasionally, look at the pictures and descriptions of some of the accidents that happen and picture yourself at the wheel.

And be safe, it's a lot more fun

Bob

[richfaa]

As far as I know the sticker on the truck is not "law" enforceable by any statute in any state or by the Feds since we are not "Commercial" pullers. I do not know that as a fact so I could be wrong..However..that sticker and the information on it is a statement by the manufacturer as to the design and specification rating of their vehicle. Some choose to stay within the manufacturers specs and are called 'weight police"
Myself included.Some choose not to..bad things can happen either way. To me it is two major things..I figure the manufacturers know the design spec's of their product far better than I and it is a "Cover my butt" thing..just in case. Information is good but please do your own homework and make your own choice

[bsmeaton]

Stiles,

Apology accepted and explanation for type accepted.

I think there are a lot of folks trying to stay very neutral and silent on this subject after the last few vicious threads, including myself. However, the initial responses to the last few threads about weight have just been underlying quips and comments about the battle to come. To me, this just promotes it, invites it, and really confuses the new member. As it has been so eloquently quoted by the statistical link showing the majority of the folks here have 3/4 ton trucks, it has been my experience that the "weight police" are the ones getting blasted far more than the other way around. If you start from the top of this thread, you can see it starting before it even gets prompted.

I would like to commit to avoid conflict, but believe there is still a lot to be learned from the "numbers" side for the new member and I would like to continue to contribute to that from a factual basis without emotion.

Happy Easter

[TLightning]

Do the numbers...your truck will be over the GVWR with the 2955 and the new fuel tank. If you can live with that, fine. Personally, I discussed exceeding weights with my attorney...based on his comments and my exposure to getting sued (and losing if at fault), I have a truck that exceeds all limits.

[Delaine and Lindy]

I am no expert but do have a lot of Transportation experience, 45 years. I have pulled all types of trailers, big and small. Have owned SRW's and DRW's trucks 1500HD, 2500HD, 3500HD, 4500 and more than one of each. The Chevy Kodiak 4500 had a total fuel capacity of 148 gals, fuel is heavy! And have operated Class 8 Trucks, and still carry a Class A Lic. No matter what decision you make there will be someone have some kind of comment good or different. I highly suggest you drive look feel and touch, and get the exact weight of your Truck and Trailer if possible and then go with what you feel is safe for you and your family. I prefer a Chevy 3500HD DRW C/C with lots of options. Hope to see you someplace down the road, in a shiney new Truck. Good Luck... GBY...

[rames14]

Johnny -
I hope you're out there and still following the thread. First, there is a very simple solution to both following the sticker and towing a trailer - when you're towing, don't fill the tank in the bed. If it handles fine and you're comfortable that you're safe, put in a quarter tank. I have followed this thread several times in various forms and both positions are defensible. I worked in the auto industry for 15 years and can tell you that there isn't a manufacturer out there that doesn't put at least a safety factor of 1.5 into everything. If there is a group more risk averse than some of our members, it's an automotive engineer. With that said, I did upgrade to a 3500 this time, because I may be getting a little heavier trailer in the future (read that as "Big Sky"). Also, it was mentioned that the way you drive and your shape and reflexes will probably go more toward avoiding that accident than the truck you have. Enjoy the forum. Regardless of which side of the weight issue you fall on, all of the members here are interested in safe, happy MOC members. Enjoy the forum.

[TMerrell]

Johnny, as you can see this topic can be explosive. That doesn't make it a bad topic or question. We have all struggled with it and made a decision. So, I'll just speak factually. I have the same truck you do but an '02. I have an '08 2955. From actual weights, I am well under all of GMC's recommended weights. If I added 400 pounds of fuel, I would still be under the truck weights.

As you make your own decision, you might consider that you don't have to fill up that tank.

[bsmeaton]

quote:Originally posted by TMerrell

So, I'll just speak factually. I have the same truck you do but an '02. I have an '08 2955. From actual weights, I am well under all of GMC's recommended weights. If I added 400 pounds of fuel, I would still be under the truck weights.

PLEASE post your "factual" weights, especially payload. I'm interested, and I'm sure Johnny is if he has the same truck. Without the data, you are speaking truths.

[exav8tr]

Johnny, I have the same truck as you, albeit a 2005. and after checking the Keystone website for the 2955 RL and having my truck weighed last summer in Anchorage AK, with hitch, extra fuel tank full of fuel, wife and 100 lb dog, at the time, I can see where you will be under the mfgs weights. If you need help with figuring weights of other Montanas, the Keystone website has the weights listed. Only you can determine how much weight you will carry and what the extra weight of additions you make to the trailer. Remember this: The pin weights they list are for an empty trailer. The best advice I could give is to fill your truck up with fuel, take whoever or whatever you are going to travel with, throw a hitch in the back (maybe a dealer will lend you one for weighing purposes), take the rig to a CAT scale and have weighed. Subtract this number from your GVWR and that would be your max pin weight you could carry and STAY WITHIN MANUFACTURERS RATING. Then take the same number and add it to the TOTAL weight of your trailer and this number should be under the mfrg GCWR. I personally feel the most important numbers are the loads you place on your tires.

I don't feel anyone should have to post actual numbers on the internet to satisfy someone elses interest. Everyones numbers are different and are no one elses business. If you need further advice, please e-mail me and I will be glad to assist you.

[sreigle]

On the Ford and Dodge, the difference between the 3/4 ton and 1 ton (single rear wheel) seem to be just in the rear suspension. Brakes, tires, frame, etc., are identical, although the 1 tons sometimes have options for larger tires that are not available on the 3/4 tons. Someone recently posted a link or two that indicate that the above statements are not true for the GM trucks. I have no information on those.

On the 3/4 ton trucks, the Montana pinweight may cause the rear to sag just a little. Some here have added additional rear suspension in the form of airbags or Timbrens shocks to allow the truck to ride level. If you also carry 400 lbs of fuel in the bed, that wold concern me a bit.

With a 3/4 ton you may be within the tow, GVWR and GCWR ratings but may be over the payload capacity as stated on the sticker on the door pillar. Many of us are over that number.

The numbers I would be more concerned with are the tire ratings and the axle ratings. You might check those out. With the 2955 you probably will be fine. Again, I'd be concerned about the extra fuel weight, though.

A dually will not get you more tow capacity nor GCWR but it will get you more GVWR and more payload capacity.

You'll find that many on this forum and other forums and, indeed, out there on the road, are using 3/4 ton trucks to tow Montanas and other brands of similar weight. I've yet to hear of problems. Also, my insurance agent and my attorney both have told me being over those ratings is not illegal. It could, however, be the reason your insurance pays, if you are at fault, and then cancels you. And if it is proven an accident happened because you were over the ratings, some attorney would love to take you to court. And would probably win.

We are over the ratings on our truck in some categories but not excessively so. In 100,000 or so miles we've had no problems. But the fact remains that you will need to assess the situation and decide for yourself. Only you can make that decision. Good luck.

[catsR4me]

Weight police folks spout GVWR this, GCWR that, pin weight, total weights, etc., to support their opinion and, technically, they are 100% correct. These folks remind me of the brand new 2ndLt in the military who is fresh out of college or the academy and ignores/discounts the advice & words of wisdom from his/her enlisted staff because that information is not based on “educated” knowledge. Likewise, the weight police seem to be adamantly opposed to the wealth of real-world knowledge & experience of so-called “testimonials.” I believe there is real value in the technical numbers, but they should be used only as a foundation for the person researching this issue. The real “proof to the pudding” is to be found from those who have driven thousands of miles in the trucks pulling our RVs. These folks (us) know what works and what doesn’t. They can speak from real-world experiences: what worked, what didn’t, what modifications gave improved performance, what got them from point A to point B safely, etc. Safety should always be the number one basis for a decision but that should be coupled with common sense. There is a BIG difference between being a few hundred pounds overweight and a few thousand pounds overweight and I believe that if any of us are “guilty” of this, it’s in the 100s pound category vs. the latter. The weight police waive the lawsuit banner but I have yet to read about a substantiated actual case. And if there is an example out there, I’d bet it was against the person who fell in the grossly overweight category. We all struggle with this issue but my advice to the people asking this question is by all means use those numbers as a guideline to establish your parameters for buying the type of truck needed to pull your RV, then read, read, read the “testimonials” of those doing the driving to determine what works, gives the best performance, and provides a safe ride. Take the two, weigh the pros & cons, and then buy the truck that will do the job for you!