Artic Package

[washley1]

quote:Originally posted by kcaravelli

Do you think there might be something specific about the "Big Sky" package that may account for that. I'm not familiar with its advatage over a standard Montana.

I don't think the Big Sky has any thermal advantage over the regular Montana line. I really don't recall what the brochure said comparing the two . It had many upgrades we wanted and were willing to pay for that justified the obscene cost diffs. Now, however, the Big Sky is no longer a separate line. It is simply a package rather than a distinctly different trailer. While it is a great package, it has been down graded in terms of luxury, fit and finish from our 2009 rig.

Without meaning to offend you, after reading several of your recent posts, it sounds to me that you have already made up your mind to not go through with your Montana purchase. You argue all your points very passionately. I do not think you will be happy with a Montana, no matter what any of us say about ours. And that's OK. You need to be 100% into any rig you buy. It's a lot of money, and you need to feel good about it. Best of luck to you in your search for the one that best fits your life.

[richfaa]

Kcaraavelli...Sounds like you are not all that familiar with The Rv industry. Quality is not job One on any brand. They all have similar problems. Of course you can keep the Montana warm at most any temperature..at a price.. We once used a tank of propane every 3 1/2 days as did other brands but were maybe not toasty. We are all honest in our experiences on this forum and IMO reflect a real world experience in this Montana or any other like brand. If this has turned you off to the Montana brand then go to another brand in the price range.. and good luck....

[Hooker]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Kcaraavelli...Sounds like you are not all that familiar with The Rv industry. Quality is not job One on any brand. They all have similar problems. Of course you can keep the Montana warm at most any temperature..at a price.. We once used a tank of propane every 3 1/2 days as did other brands but were maybe not toasty. We are all honest in our experiences on this forum and IMO reflect a real world experience in this Montana or any other like brand. If this has turned you off to the Montana brand then go to another brand in the price range.. and good luck....

Well put.

You can pay two to three times what a Montana costs and get a Mobile Suites that will probably be a little tighter and less drafty. However, to me, a Montana is to the 5th wheel industry what a Honda Accord is to the auto industry...dollar for dollar the best choice out there.

Your money, your choice. The Montana is the best selling 5th wheel for nine (or is it 10?) years in a row for a reason.

[richfaa]

The Mobile suite folks were hauling their propane tanks to the refill station the same frequency we were as were other brands. You can pay more and get better quality but you will still have the same problems.. that is the way it is in the world of Rv'ing.

[exav8tr]

I have an '06 3400RL and DO NOT HAVE THE DRAFTS THAT OTHERS ARE REPORTING. Obviously the choice is yours. We normally say the Montana is the BEST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK. Not the cheapest and ceertainly not the most expensive. One cannot compare the Montana with a high end Carriage or Mobile Suites. I would suggest, if you can afford the luxury coaches, then go for it, but BUYER BEWARE, as my buddy richfaa says QUALITY IS NOT JOB 1 IN THIS MARKET. We put some faith in the fact that the Keystone Company has made many of us happy by repairing and fixing their units when necessary. Find another company with a larger dealer base and go fo it.... I don't think the economic bubble has fully burst and it will be interesting to see which companies are still around in a few years... Good luck in your decision and happy RVing....

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by Lawman

To be honest, I have not read the four previous pages of posts. However, these rigs leak air like sieves. When cold, we stuff towels, dirty clothes, WalMart bags and anything else we can find, where ever the slide corners meet the frame. Try sitting on the floor...it is very drafty. We run two 1,500 Lasko heaters, they are a big help and not nearly as irritating as the "furnace" cycling on and off every few minutes.

In all fairness to Keystone, this is a case that sounds like the slides may need adjustment. With good seals and properly fit slides there should be no draft. We are parked in a cross wind and get no draft on our Itsaca...a nice coach but not a "high end" coach.

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by CamillaMichael

Phil, I was just thinking about the posts herein I have read from members who suffer from drafts and scratch my head and say "what drafts?" Wonder if maybe there is an issue with their units needing to have their slides adjusted????? The Owner's Manual says the slides will need periodic adjustment...just a thought. Michael

Michael, point well made! I am new to this forum and feel that I too may have jumped on that one a bit fast. I can't see where the draft would come from if the slides are well fitted and are properly adjusted. I will continue reading on this. I am hoping that is not an issue with build quality for Keystone.

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by exav8tr

Michael, that could be or they were built on a Monday, Monday, Can't trust that day. Vintage Mamas and Papas tune!!!!

Read Studs Terkel's book on the subject. Can't remember the title now but it goes into great length on that theme.

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by indy roadrunner

Let me make this as simple as I can. Anything below 32 deg F is cold even if it is 0 degrees C.
I am beginning to get the impression that if I want to do the snowbird thing and not be cold I am going to have to further south than Florida, lets see maybe somewhere in the middle of South America.

Funny you should mention South America. We are seriously considering a retirement based in Panama. I have scoured the forums for information on it. My hope was to transport our super cheap RV lifestyle to a super affordable Panama after buying or renting some cheap land down there. It is not turning out to be a great idea. We were going to ship our MH down there but the import tax is off the charts.

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by scductman

Rich a friend it tn this winter showed me how he did his slideouts. he screwed 2" styrofoam under his and layed it on top under the slidetoppers I know it would have to be removed to retract the slides but for long term might be a good mod. he told me it worked really well. I guess it depends on how far you are willing to go.
bobby

Excellent Idea

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by CamillaMichael

The extra slides do present a heating and cooling challenge, but wouldn't live without them! In this regard, I believe the slide toppers help a lot in cooling...don't know about heating. When we had SOB TT, we did not have slide toppers and the temp in the slide area was always significantly hotter than the rest of the trailer. The newer models appear to have improved somewhat with insulation, but there is just so much that can be stuffed into two(?)inch walls...and I think the slide walls are even thinnner. For a smart business person, maybe here is an opportunity for a coach blanket...sort of like the "blanket" you put around your hot water heater at home. No? Well, just a thought.

I must compliment you on that idea...I made the suggestion also in s reply yesterday.

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by Hooker

We have been spending time in our new MH, and the difference in the sealing of the edges of the slides is huge. The MH is very tight, the slides fit snuggly on all four sides and have double seals on all sides. Another thing I have noticed is that every line, cable, cord, etc that goes through a wall has the hole in the wall (along with the items going through it) sealed with expandable foam.

Montana likes to brag on the high R factor of the roof, sides and floor. That's fine except all that insulation is no good if the slides fit is bad. If I sat on the floor of the Montana there was a noticeable draft, unless it was windy outside then there was a breeze.

Build quality? Is the slide adjusted properly? Did you have it looked at. I am reading so many of these posts about slide drafts that I may end up buying anohter type of coach. Like you, we have a motorhome and the slides are well sealed and never leak...it's a 2003 HM from Itasca.

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by GRHooper

We're parked in Oklahoma City and are experiencing the same issues. It gets really chilly around the windows, especially the windows that are on slides. We run a DeLonghi oil-filled radiator heater and the fireplace 24/7. I also have a little Vornado 750 watt heater in the basement pointed to the pipes (I removed the shroud behind the convenience center, exposing some of the water pipes). With respect to how often we refill propane tanks, I'd say about every 4-5 days. Best to use as much electric heat as possible, particularly if you're not paying extra for electricity. Also, our fresh water tank is frozen and the only remedy, it appears, is to install tank heaters once we can move the trailer (or warm temps come). We have the 2009 3605RL and it is NOT a four season rv. Good luck!

Got a call from a dealer in NY today that has acceppted my bid on a Montana rig he has. He has already secured financing and we are were trying to figure out how to get it shipped out here for a reasonable amount. Now after reading all these threads about "cheap" slides I am about to bag the idea of a Montana all together. We have a Itasca Suncruiser and have absolutely no issue with draft.

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by Hooker

As noted earlier, I think the slides are the weak links. The most of air leaks in our 3400 were in and around the slides...very drafty.

Seems to be a consistently sore point with many who own Montanas in this thread. Why would anyone buy a Montana after reading this thread? Why support this level of craftsmanship and poor design?
Sorry, I'm not picking on you but I have read through every entry in this thread and I am probably not going to go through with the Monata purchase we had planned this week from a dealer in NY. We are full-timers in a motorhome. Not a high end one, just a nice one. Cold, yes draft slides....wow I can't belive what I'm reading in here about these rigs. I have been head over heals to get a new 3465SA but now I'm just not thinking it is a great idea.

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by granet

Rich and Hooker plus Rancher Will,
Fistley Hooker I agree the slides are a major weak link in the warmth of the unit-we stuffed the rubber boots all around with fibreglass but when it got to -47 these areas were still cold next year we will insulate the roofs and underneath with board insulation as we just had insulation around them this year! I have found that our greatest heat loss is around the windows as there is so much glass in a 3400 this was a real problem-we added the plastic window packages to the outside but next year we will double it and do the inside window treatment as well!
I hope these little tit bits of information are of use to any that are braving the winters as we are but as previously stated this unit is a lot better than my previous sob.
Regards
Granet

We have dual-pane windows in our MH and it a complete life saver.

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by Hooker

Ok, I will take the hit on this one. You make some good points. But please keep in mind that we full-timers and have been for over two years. I agree with the comparison of $10 more for a $1 more protection in the case of draft and so forth. Yes RVs all have their issues and we all use similar equipment such as heaters and such.
No I won't stand still and let manufactures get away with selling us build quality that can and should be improved. This indstry is a "relic" in terms of manufacturing standards. We can sit and take it or we can put our consumer power to use buy bringing these flaws to light in public forum. It is important to keep it constructive but I do feel strongly about it.

Well put.

You can pay two to three times what a Montana costs and get a Mobile Suites that will probably be a little tighter and less drafty. However, to me, a Montana is to the 5th wheel industry what a Honda Accord is to the auto industry...dollar for dollar the best choice out there.

Your money, your choice. The Montana is the best selling 5th wheel for nine (or is it 10?) years in a row for a reason.

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

The Mobile suite folks were hauling their propane tanks to the refill station the same frequency we were as were other brands. You can pay more and get better quality but you will still have the same problems.. that is the way it is in the world of Rv'ing.

I recently viewed a couple Mobile Suites and was stunned and dissapointed in their rigs. You make a fair point.
"The world of RV'ing" belongs to us. We control it with our consumer dollars. We owe it to each other to push the industry to give us the best rigs they can build for the money we spend or we should go somewhere else.

[exav8tr]

I agree completely with the premise that the RV industry is a "relic" in the manufacturing industry, however, the question is "How do we continue to satisfy our RVing needs WITHOUT supporting this industry?" Make our own?. It seems the only thing these folks understand is the $$$$$$. It seems the only way to get anything done in this world today is to affect the bottom line. So do we all quit buying for a few years until they get their act together? or do we buy and constantly complain? They know they have us over a barrel. We want their product so much we are willing to accept lower quality. What a dilemna that puts us in....To buy or not to buy, is akin to "RV or not to RV". If we continue to push for the "Perfect RV", we may end up pushing ourselves out of the market. I know many of us cannot afford a High end unit, so we settle for something less expensive and figure we may have to put in some "sweat equity" to maintain it. What is nice about fulltiming, is that you can usually avoid the weather extremes, I know I have the last four years......

[richfaa]

Other brands have the same problem..If you think you can buy a 5th wheel in the same price and not have drafty slides you are mistaken. Look under the unit any unit .Look at the corners where the seals overlap. That is a loose fit and wind will get up in there.

I kid Phil about his warm and toasty 3400 as we have exactly the same model and year just a few months apart. In a fairly high wind and fairly cold weather we get drafts. I even did some temp checks and posted them some time ago.The slides were colder.My feet were cold under the PC desk. We are warm and toasty the majority of the time. But we do get drafts from time to time and our slides are perfectly aligned by the service center.

Like Phil we also avoid very warm and very cold weather..That was the plan. As I have said many times. The Montana is no better no worse tha any other brand in the price range.

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by exav8tr

I agree completely with the premise that the RV industry is a "relic" in the manufacturing industry, however, the question is "How do we continue to satisfy our RVing needs WITHOUT supporting this industry?" Make our own?. It seems the only thing these folks understand is the $$$$$$. It seems the only way to get anything done in this world today is to affect the bottom line. So do we all quit buying for a few years until they get their act together? or do we buy and constantly complain? They know they have us over a barrel. We want their product so much we are willing to accept lower quality. What a dilemna that puts us in....To buy or not to buy, is akin to "RV or not to RV". If we continue to push for the "Perfect RV", we may end up pushing ourselves out of the market. I know many of us cannot afford a High end unit, so we settle for something less expensive and figure we may have to put in some "sweat equity" to maintain it. What is nice about fulltiming, is that you can usually avoid the weather extremes, I know I have the last four years......

My friend I am afraid you are mistaken, RV munufactures have been closing left and right. The onlyh ones that will stay open are the ones we support. That is our choice and if they don't build quality, we should not buy them.