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Old 01-27-2021, 11:38 AM   #21
kowbra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bshgto View Post
I put all 3 x-Factors on and the MorRyde SRE 4000 suspension to improve on what we are given. Common sense will tell you this can nothing but help. I just know stuff does not move around in my camper like it used to.
Seems like every time one talks to another person at Keystone, MorRyde or the frame shop
you get a different answer. I believe they all are looking for a reasons to deny any warranty claim with no engineering behind it and use your fear of that to get over on you. Ask to speak to their engineer and prove in writing it will do some thing to the frame by using those products, you`ll never get it.
I tried a warranty claim for frame flex, they could find nothing to deny the claim so the dealer said you can not fix a vacuum bonded wall so they said they would not do what Keystone said to do for the repair.
The engineering will prove them wrong and this isn`t the person you are talking to at a rally. Engineers don`t like to lie it`s a professional thing among them the others will and do all the time.
I have to disagree with your broad categorizations of people. I've seen liars and honest people in all professions; I've worked with some engineers that have been less than honest and some sales people who have been among the most trustworthy folks I've worked with.

And in the case of "the person you are talking to at a rally", at the recent virtual rally those were not junior folks, but included Sam Lengeritch the Montana Product Manager. A product manager is a position that has to balance all of the needs of product development; everything from the engineering to the manufacturing, to the sales and marketing development... they have to keep all of the buyers like us happy, while also keeping all of the suppliers and shareholders happy and profitable too. IOW, Sam has a job that is likely far more complex, with far more moving pieces than any of us "armchair experts" on this forum.

I don't like that the supplier manufacturers keep changing their minds on what is or what is not warranty approved, but I also understand that this is a complex environment and that there is a lot more to the story than we may understand.

Brad
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Old 01-27-2021, 12:53 PM   #22
bshgto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kowbra View Post
I have to disagree with your broad categorizations of people. I've seen liars and honest people in all professions; I've worked with some engineers that have been less than honest and some sales people who have been among the most trustworthy folks I've worked with.

And in the case of "the person you are talking to at a rally", at the recent virtual rally those were not junior folks, but included Sam Lengeritch the Montana Product Manager. A product manager is a position that has to balance all of the needs of product development; everything from the engineering to the manufacturing, to the sales and marketing development... they have to keep all of the buyers like us happy, while also keeping all of the suppliers and shareholders happy and profitable too. IOW, Sam has a job that is likely far more complex, with far more moving pieces than any of us "armchair experts" on this forum.

I don't like that the supplier manufacturers keep changing their minds on what is or what is not warranty approved, but I also understand that this is a complex environment and that there is a lot more to the story than we may understand.

Brad
really don`t care, but the answers keep changing with the wind and people answering them. There position in the company means nothing.

here is a good example from the other thread on the board.

"Interesting to hear Lippert is saying the MorRyde IS system will void the frame warranty. I discussed the MorRyde with a Lippert rep at the 2018 Rally. He stated the IS system wouldn't affect the frame warranty.
I am wondering if this has anything to do with them introducing the Lippert Center Point system?
I am going to follow up with Lippert regarding this."

Yes I`m sure these weren`t junior people either. The engineers I dealt with for 30 years must have been a different breed than the ones up North. Peoples lives usually depended on their decisions so no funny business.
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Old 01-27-2021, 02:11 PM   #23
kowbra
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Originally Posted by bshgto View Post
really don`t care, but the answers keep changing with the wind and people answering them. There position in the company means nothing.

here is a good example from the other thread on the board.

"Interesting to hear Lippert is saying the MorRyde IS system will void the frame warranty. I discussed the MorRyde with a Lippert rep at the 2018 Rally. He stated the IS system wouldn't affect the frame warranty.
I am wondering if this has anything to do with them introducing the Lippert Center Point system?
I am going to follow up with Lippert regarding this."

Yes I`m sure these weren`t junior people either. The engineers I dealt with for 30 years must have been a different breed than the ones up North. Peoples lives usually depended on their decisions so no funny business.
I completely agree with calling out the the people who need to get called out.

I just think it's a pretty narrow view of the world to call out a person's character based merely on the job they do. Nothing different about the engineers north vs south; mostly great people but I've met some exceptions. And, I've been blessed to get to consult all over NA, so can honestly say my view is not regional in scope. That's why I can say I've seen great and honest people in other jobs as well. But I've also had to work with some in a variety of roles where I can't wait to be finished with them.
I'd rather judge a person for what they say and what they do, not what job puts food on their table. YMMV.


As to my observations of this issue? It seems to me that most of the change in direction has come from Lippert not Montana. It makes no difference whether their job at Montana is in engineering or other, they aren't the ones changing the rules, at least in the matters that have been recently discussed.

The concerning pattern I see is that Lippert is giving favor to their own products (or maybe those they might be trying to acquire), but they have started excluding other manufacturers with the "void frame warranty" statements.

Brad
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Old 01-27-2021, 03:34 PM   #24
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Rather than pointing fingers, I thought I would look for a solution to the question at hand.

I spoke with the Montana Product Manager, Sam Lengerich, a short time ago and discussed this issue. Sam has already communicated with both Lippert and MorRyde management regarding installing the MorRyde IS system on the Lippert frame on our Montanas.

Lippert's reply: "Only would void the warranty on the area that was modified. Which I would think MR would cover that with their modification. So they should be good".

MorRyde's reply: "The MORryde IS system replaces the existing leaf springs, axles, and attaching parts with our independent design suspension. In addition to outstanding towing benefits, the IS has substantial cross members that go side to side that reinforce and strengthen the frame section where it is installed. Because of the superior towing benefits and strength, the IS is currently being installed at the OEM factory by 4 different OEM's, 3 of which who use Lippert frames. Lippert installs the spring clips on the frame so the IS can be attached. In addition to the OEM business, MORryde has installed thousands of IS sytems, with the vast majority being on LCI frames".

"From a warranty standpoint, because the IS system replaces the running gear on a travel trailer or 5th wheel frame, the warranty for those components now comes from MORryde and not LCI. The MORryde IS warranty is a 5 year warranty because of the strength and durability of the system. The installation of the IS should not impact the other parts of the frame or their warranty".

So, there it is. A consensus from Lippert, MorRyde and Montana.
If MorRyde installs the IS system on a Montana the frame warranty is intact, except the area of the frame that was modified by MorRyde. MorRyde includes the portion of the frame they modified in their 5 year warranty.

Those of you still in warranty and considering changing to the MorRyde IS system should not have any concerns about voiding warranties.

Look forward to seeing all my friends and meeting new ones at this year's Fall Rally. Best Regards.
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Old 01-27-2021, 06:11 PM   #25
kowbra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Former StClairSailor View Post
Rather than pointing fingers, I thought I would look for a solution to the question at hand.

I spoke with the Montana Product Manager, Sam Lengerich, a short time ago and discussed this issue. Sam has already communicated with both Lippert and MorRyde management regarding installing the MorRyde IS system on the Lippert frame on our Montanas.

Lippert's reply: "Only would void the warranty on the area that was modified. Which I would think MR would cover that with their modification. So they should be good".

MorRyde's reply: "The MORryde IS system replaces the existing leaf springs, axles, and attaching parts with our independent design suspension. In addition to outstanding towing benefits, the IS has substantial cross members that go side to side that reinforce and strengthen the frame section where it is installed. Because of the superior towing benefits and strength, the IS is currently being installed at the OEM factory by 4 different OEM's, 3 of which who use Lippert frames. Lippert installs the spring clips on the frame so the IS can be attached. In addition to the OEM business, MORryde has installed thousands of IS sytems, with the vast majority being on LCI frames".

"From a warranty standpoint, because the IS system replaces the running gear on a travel trailer or 5th wheel frame, the warranty for those components now comes from MORryde and not LCI. The MORryde IS warranty is a 5 year warranty because of the strength and durability of the system. The installation of the IS should not impact the other parts of the frame or their warranty".

So, there it is. A consensus from Lippert, MorRyde and Montana.
If MorRyde installs the IS system on a Montana the frame warranty is intact, except the area of the frame that was modified by MorRyde. MorRyde includes the portion of the frame they modified in their 5 year warranty.

Those of you still in warranty and considering changing to the MorRyde IS system should not have any concerns about voiding warranties.

Look forward to seeing all my friends and meeting new ones at this year's Fall Rally. Best Regards.
Thanks John,
Always best right from the horses mouth, and I appreciate you sharing the feedback you gathered!

Brad
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