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Old 04-15-2010, 03:53 PM   #1
Anton
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2009 Chev 2500 vs 3500 HD

I have heard that the only real difference between the 2500&3500 is an additional leaf spring. I have also heard that there is room to include an additional spring in the 2500 and thereby increasing the trucks GVWR to 9900 compared to 9200. Any thoughts or comments about this. This would solve one of the key weaknesses of the 2500 and allow more pin weight and weight in back of my 3/4 ton truck. Thanks in advance for your input.
 
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Old 04-15-2010, 04:19 PM   #2
Art-n-Marge
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You'll get my vote. I did that on my F-250 to change it to an F-350. It did require a visit to the Ford service desk to compare every part possible (diff, brakes, shocks, springs, spacers, trans). I found two things - the extra leaf spring, spacer and brackets, and the wheels and tires. The spring work has been done, and I am in the process of buying new wheels and tires to support the new weight rating.

I would strongly recommend you also check your tires to ensure they support the new weight. The best way is to find out what the factory tire size is on the 3500. They will probably be bigger than your 2500 unless you upgraded the tires when you bought your truck. My truck went from 10,000 GVWR and 6100 RAWR, to 11,200 (or 11,500 depending who you believe) GVWR and 7000 RAWR. I was overweight because of the pin and now I'm very close to not being over.

For the naysayers, this is a valid (and possibly complex) modification. To complete the upgrade one might (not must) recertify the truck to have the pillar label changed to reflect the new numbers, but this is ONLY required if you plan to use your truck for commercial purposes. Private owners do not have to recertify. In doing so, the new pillar will also include a new VIN which is how your state's DMV can charge more when renewing because you are potentially hauling heavier loads. I keep my parts list for the modifications just for the record but I have no plans for recertification. I only checked this out for California. Other states may vary.

My current GVW is 11,000 and the RAW is currently at 6,800 so now I am closer with my specification. With the current tires and wheels the GVWR is 10,400 and the RAW is 6,500 so you can see I am still a little overweight even with air bags. The new higher capacity wheels and tires will give me the margin I need (11,500 and 7,000). This works for me. Others do different things which work for them.
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Old 04-15-2010, 04:26 PM   #3
exav8tr
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Anton, Welcome to "The Best Darned Forum on the WWW"! There is essentially no way to officially change the GVWR of a truck without having it recertified by the manufacturer, which is, I'm told, not impossible but next to impossible. The added spring, which I did on my '05 2500, will give you added piece of mind that your truck may be able to carry the additional weight. I did the comparison in '06 when I got my truck (used), and the only difference in part numbers at that time was the spring package. I pulled the first year with the 2500, but upgraded in '08 to the 3500 dually. A lot has been written on this subject here on this forum, you might try the search function above....I think the truck will handle the added weight but one should consider the weight on the tires and the "possible" legal aspects of towing overweight. Do your research well and make up your own mind. Good Luck!!!!!
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Old 04-15-2010, 04:34 PM   #4
PapaBeav
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There is more to it than just adding the springs. If that's the case then just add air bags. I added the air bags to level out the truck when towing, not to make it a 1 ton truck.
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Old 04-15-2010, 04:45 PM   #5
Art-n-Marge
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Oops, I forgot to mention I have air bags too and they do not add to the GVWR. They just level the load and for me improved the ride tremendously. They also bring the headlamps down a bit so you don't blind opposing traffic. When you think about it (and this helps hide overweight rigs in Canada) the air bags also help disguise the fact you might be overloaded.

Like Phil (exav8tr) suggests, good luck getting recertified by the dealer. In California, there are commercial companies that do this service for a large fee and processing (this is what I understand - I didn't even bother trying). This is actually quite a business since trucks are being rebuilt from shells and will need a new pillar label when the work is completed. I stopped at getting the name of a company in L.A. and their phone number. I no longer have this info.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:48 PM   #6
Tom S.
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Anton, depending on the year of truck, the difference between the 2500 and 3500 (single rear wheel) is the rear springs, wheels and tires. Some years, the 3500 had slightly wider steel rims with higher load ratings vs. narrower aluminum wheels. 2500's typically come with "D" rated tires while the 3500 has "E" rated. Otherwise, frames. axles and drive train are the same. The 3500 dually uses the same setup as the 3500 single rear wheel, but adds different wheels (front and rear), the dual rear wheels and rear quarter panel flares. Those are the only differences.
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:53 AM   #7
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One other difference in the GM trucks is that GM does not offer the 3500 SRW in a short box configuration. That is one reason I wouldn't buy the 3500 SRW. I see no real significance in weight rating by this tho.

I just had the TV bed sprayed with a liner a couple days ago, and that equipment dealer carried both Super Springs, and the Hellwig helpers. I personally like the looks of the Hellwig products. I would probably go this route, because of the cost of the GM Parts. I would also consider the air bags. Anything that levels the truck will serve the same purpose; transfer the weight to the axle.
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:54 AM   #8
mail2us
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Our 2007.5 2500HD has E rated OEM tires.
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:25 AM   #9
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This subject is debated very often. Doesn't matter how many gadgets you add to a 3/4 ton Truck you still have a 3/4 ton Truck. If you tow a Montana with a 3/4 ton and then tow the same Montana with a 1 ton DRW Truck there will be a difference. There are some who still believe there is no difference, but having owned both there is a difference. The pin weigh will always be the problem with a 3/4 ton Truck. You can use air bags or Timbrens but you still have a 3/4 ton Truck. But its a choice you will have to make. I still believe that a 34' plus 5th wheel should be towed with a 1 ton DRW Truck. GBY...
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Old 04-16-2010, 05:21 AM   #10
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by mail2us

Our 2007.5 2500HD has E rated OEM tires.
I'm thinking when GM went to the HD lineup (02 or so)they went to the E rated tires. I've never seen a 2500HD without them. I know the door pillar label on our 04 called for the E tires, rear pressure at 80PSI.
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Old 04-16-2010, 05:32 AM   #11
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I have a 2005 dodge ram 2500 big horn edition, cummins, 4x4 with firestone ride-rite"air helper springs", long bed, automatic.I'm purchasing a 2011 3400rl, loaded weight is about 15,600, hitch weight is 2,150, my truck has 41,000 mi.,not even broke in,but( I don't want to brake it ).I think it will handle it,but a lot of times I don't think right. Any suggestions
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Old 04-16-2010, 07:37 AM   #12
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We're with Dennis and Judy on our TV. We have the 2007.5 2500HD and have the E series standard on our truck. I even took the OEM tires off and put them on the 2980 we tow and have had no problems! I put Goodyear Wranglers on the TV since I needed them for the farm work and etc. If and when I need new tires for the Monte, I'll be checking here with LonnieB and others to see what is recommended at that time. I've thought about adding another spring to the TV but as said earlier to make it a 3500 it has to be endorsed by the manufacturer and you've got to get new plates for the door and all and that's not easy to do with the manufacturer. Don't know exactly what I'll do yet-adding another spring or adding air bags! Decisions- Decisions!!!
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:03 AM   #13
SlickWillie
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quote:Originally posted by Don57

I have a 2005 dodge ram 2500 big horn edition, cummins, 4x4 with firestone ride-rite"air helper springs", long bed, automatic.I'm purchasing a 2011 3400rl, loaded weight is about 15,600, hitch weight is 2,150, my truck has 41,000 mi.,not even broke in,but( I don't want to brake it ).I think it will handle it,but a lot of times I don't think right. Any suggestions
Suggestions? Hook her up and tow away!
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:49 AM   #14
TLightning
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quote:Originally posted by exav8tr

Anton, Welcome to "The Best Darned Forum on the WWW"! There is essentially no way to officially change the GVWR of a truck without having it recertified by the manufacturer, which is, I'm told, not impossible but next to impossible. The added spring, which I did on my '05 2500, will give you added piece of mind that your truck may be able to carry the additional weight. I did the comparison in '06 when I got my truck (used), and the only difference in part numbers at that time was the spring package. I pulled the first year with the 2500, but upgraded in '08 to the 3500 dually. A lot has been written on this subject here on this forum, you might try the search function above....I think the truck will handle the added weight but one should consider the weight on the tires and the "possible" legal aspects of towing overweight. Do your research well and make up your own mind. Good Luck!!!!!
Good advice.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Don57

I have a 2005 dodge ram 2500 big horn edition, cummins, 4x4 with firestone ride-rite"air helper springs", long bed, automatic.I'm purchasing a 2011 3400rl, loaded weight is about 15,600, hitch weight is 2,150, my truck has 41,000 mi.,not even broke in,but( I don't want to brake it ).I think it will handle it,but a lot of times I don't think right. Any suggestions
I think you will find that hitch weight is the empty weight...that number it's what the factory claims to be the HW so prospective owners think it is 3/4 towable. A realistic HW is 20% of the GW, for you that will be north of 3,100#, well over the empty HW and well over the capacity of any diesel 3/4 ton. If you want to find the actual cargo capacity of your truck, look at the Tire and Loading Information sticker on the left side door panel. It will have the cargo capacity to the nearest pound...you won't like what it says...BTDT.

So, here is my suggestion...get a smaller Montana or a larger truck.
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:05 PM   #16
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As far as pin weight goes the literature I have for my 2003 2955 RL it says my pin weight is 2220 lbs.I was towing it with a 1997 K2500 and I know it was to much weight for it.
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Old 04-17-2010, 12:53 PM   #17
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Thanks Art&Marge and everyone for the input.I did research my 2009HD D/A,CC. My tires are 265/70/17E and rims 17x7.5J and thats a good thing. Next I want to weigh my truck fully loaded and ready to camp. I suspect I will be about 7200lbs., but I might be surprised with a higher number. I will even weigh my current FW a Cougar278 just for information. I am looking to purchase a new Mountaineer324 or 326 which would give me a GVWR of 14315. I know this is too heavy using the 20% guide(800+ over) for estimating pin weight, however, using a 15% pin I would be overweight by just 150lbs. I will still beef up my rear springs on TV with one of the suggestions mentioned.Where am I going wrong? Thanks again, Dave(Anton).
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Old 04-17-2010, 01:31 PM   #18
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I have a 2004 2500 HD towing a 2980. I believe the pin weight is SUPPOSED to be something like 2360 lb. I weighed it and it is MUCH heavier, even tho the total trailer weight was something like 11600 including pin weight. I think the pin was at least 2800 lb. With a diesel and the almost 200 lb hitch, my rear axle was 6480, I think. The tires each rate at 3242. Whatever, I was 4 whole lb. under the tire limit! Oh, I also upgraded to a 52 gallon fuel tank, which adds about 200 lb full.
So to summarize, I was almost 1000 lb over the total truck weight limit of 9200 lb. I had somewhat less in the monty and a 3/4 tank of fuel and a full water tank and weighed around 9800 or so for the whole truck. The full water tank in the rear of monty lifts the front a bit I think. So if I put my wife, all the tools etc from the basement, all the clothes from the closet in the back of the monty and only run 1/4 tank of fuel, I think I can make weight if caught in British Columbia this summer!!!
Oh, I added air bags so I run level now and hope they don't stop me.

p.s. For some reason, of all the 2006 Monty's, the 2980 is the heaviest at the pin.!
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Old 04-17-2010, 01:57 PM   #19
exav8tr
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I have an '06 3400RL and my pin weight is 3000 lbs. This was the figure I was given by Keystone this last fall. Keystone likes to see a 20-25% max pin weight. They really don't care what you pull it with as long as the trailer is within their numbers. They didn't like my weights, but I am well out or warranty anyway so any repairs are on me anyway......

AND, my point is: Don't believe the numbers that Keystone supplies with the new units, what matters is how you load it and what it ends up to be. Be careful shifting too much weight to the rear or you could overload the rear tires.....AND cause control issues......
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Old 04-17-2010, 02:10 PM   #20
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quote:Originally posted by twindman

Oh, I also upgraded to a 52 gallon fuel tank, which adds about 200 lb full.
Not to be nit picky here, but diesel is about 7 lbs/gal...so you need to increase that 200 by at least another 150.
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