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07-10-2020, 10:30 AM
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#1
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New Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Sturgis
Posts: 8
M.O.C. #26072
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Ghosts in my Wiring
2017 3820FK. I seem to have some ghosts living in my wiring. When I'm hooked up to my P/U and do a lighting check the right rear running light and turn signal is very dim as though it's being loaded down. The side marker flashes as well, but the left side does not. My porch light over the front door also comes on when I turn on the running lights. I checked ground in the back, ground in the hitch, unplugged from P/U turned off the battery and disconnected shore power. Then when I flip the porch light switch on the tail lights and the fridge come on which I find very bizarre.
Is there a main control circuit board for the wiring/devices in this unit? This is the only thing I can think of which would cause phantom power to be applied to the fridge or rear running lights when I turn the porch light on. If there's not, I have, what I can imagine to be, a very serious wiring issue.
Any suggestions are welcome at this point. I'm at a loss for additional troubleshooting other than to get a wiring diagram and rip into everything.
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07-10-2020, 10:45 AM
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#2
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,799
M.O.C. #11455
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Welcome to the forum! Hopefully one of our electrical experts will be along soon. Not wanting to add to your issues, but wiring diagrams are not available for any Montana ever made.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
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07-10-2020, 10:47 AM
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#3
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New Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Sturgis
Posts: 8
M.O.C. #26072
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Alright! Awesome!!
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07-10-2020, 11:13 AM
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#4
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Site Team
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Colorado Rockies
Posts: 1,914
M.O.C. #19755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofurs22
2017 3820FK. I seem to have some ghosts living in my wiring. When I'm hooked up to my P/U and do a lighting check the right rear running light and turn signal is very dim as though it's being loaded down. The side marker flashes as well, but the left side does not. My porch light over the front door also comes on when I turn on the running lights. I checked ground in the back, ground in the hitch, unplugged from P/U turned off the battery and disconnected shore power. Then when I flip the porch light switch on the tail lights and the fridge come on which I find very bizarre.
Is there a main control circuit board for the wiring/devices in this unit? This is the only thing I can think of which would cause phantom power to be applied to the fridge or rear running lights when I turn the porch light on. If there's not, I have, what I can imagine to be, a very serious wiring issue.
Any suggestions are welcome at this point. I'm at a loss for additional troubleshooting other than to get a wiring diagram and rip into everything.
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Have you considered exorism? Seriously, not sure. Usually, multiple weird problems like this would be caused by bad grounds; but you checked that.
Throwing the fridge in really complicates it; I assume you have a 12V/propane fridge?
You mentioned you "unplugged from P/U turned off the battery and disconnected shore power. Then when I flip the porch light switch on the tail lights and the fridge come on". Did you really get these results when you disconnected all three sources of power?
For trouble shooting, I would try to simplify things. Since you might be having issues without the truck connected, leave it disconnected and solve the problem that remains. More than likely there is only one issue causing all your problems; solve that and see what happens when you hook the truck back up.
Dick is right; don't even bother asking Keystone for any types of schematics or drawings. They would not give them to you if they had them; just tell you to "take it to a dealer". Actually, from what we have seen, they don't even have them. We have seen the same model of trailers wired differently.
Best of luck, keep us posted.
__________________
Scott & Alta
2017 Montana 3160RL, Legacy, Onan 5.5Kw, Solar
2022 F-450 Lariat Ultimate
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07-10-2020, 11:20 AM
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#5
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New Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Sturgis
Posts: 8
M.O.C. #26072
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I've got the Norcold 3-way installed
Yes, with no power source applied, the porch light switch made the fridge come on which is when I stood and stared off into space for a while. I'm thinking I need to start at the battery disconnect switch and just check every connection/device for power and ground.
Also, with the battery isolation switch in the off position, I still get the little blue lights on my power recliner and some of the interior lights still work. Is that normal or should the isolation switch cut off all power to the unit?
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07-10-2020, 11:43 AM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 2,707
M.O.C. #7992
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Can't speak specifics on your model but general rule battery disconnect switch still leaves power to the propane leak alarm, some co2 detectors, landing gears, stabilizers. The labeling on the battery disconnect switch is confusing as to what is off and on. A volt/ohm meter at the disconnect switch should answer that question for you. Some have reported those switches to be defective. To be sure while trouble shooting just remove the negative cable from your battery. Still sounds to me like a flaky ground. Many issues on this forum have been resolved by cleaning up the chassis ground end of the negative battery cable. That's where i would start. Good luck.
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2006 3000RK
2009 Ram 2500
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07-10-2020, 11:52 AM
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#7
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Site Team
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Colorado Rockies
Posts: 1,914
M.O.C. #19755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofurs22
I've got the Norcold 3-way installed
Yes, with no power source applied, the porch light switch made the fridge come on which is when I stood and stared off into space for a while. I'm thinking I need to start at the battery disconnect switch and just check every connection/device for power and ground.
Also, with the battery isolation switch in the off position, I still get the little blue lights on my power recliner and some of the interior lights still work. Is that normal or should the isolation switch cut off all power to the unit?
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That is a great fridge that works without power! My recliners have AC power supplies; do not work without shore power. Yeah, start at the source. Disconnect truck, disconnect shore power, start troubleshooting.
__________________
Scott & Alta
2017 Montana 3160RL, Legacy, Onan 5.5Kw, Solar
2022 F-450 Lariat Ultimate
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07-10-2020, 12:47 PM
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#8
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New Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Sturgis
Posts: 8
M.O.C. #26072
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Thank you! I'll give it a shot.
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07-10-2020, 07:43 PM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: westminster md
Posts: 2,318
M.O.C. #17894
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Sounds like a ground issue to me.
__________________
2018 Chevy 3500 LTZ Dually Diesel 4x4 CCLB
2011 Montana 3455 SA. 6 point level up. Disc brakes. Curt Q24 Hitch. 5 step glow steps
Progressive EMS. Valterra tank valves. Sailun G637 tires. ARP fridge control. All led lighting. Mor Ryde IS
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07-14-2020, 01:15 PM
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#10
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New Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Sturgis
Posts: 8
M.O.C. #26072
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I’m still working this issue. I’ll update this as I get deeper into the issue.
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07-14-2020, 08:24 PM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 7,159
M.O.C. #6433
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The dim turn signal and flashing marker lamp are common symptoms of a bad ground. Have had that many times on utility trailers. Happens due to getting voltage feedback from one circuit to another due to no or poor ground to sink that voltage. And likely that bad ground is causing those other problems. But wow, those are some really weird ones.
Unplugged from truck and unhooked from shore power and battery turned off, do you have 12 volts on your fuse panel?
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
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07-15-2020, 08:04 AM
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#12
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New Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Sturgis
Posts: 8
M.O.C. #26072
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My guess would be yes, but I haven’t put a meter on it. I’ll check that when I’m able. Thank you!
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07-19-2020, 02:20 PM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Qualicum Beach
Posts: 665
M.O.C. #26399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofurs22
My guess would be yes, but I haven’t put a meter on it. I’ll check that when I’m able. Thank you!
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Disconnect the DC power at the battery, the so-called battery disconnect switch still allows power to some phantom loads.
Is the fridge a residential or conventional RV propane?
Do you have inCommand or any of the other fancy power centers.
If the porch light switch is turning on vehicle lights then something is seriously miswired. I would follow the umbilical back to the junction box and make sure it has not been crushed and making some weird circuits.
__________________
2018 Keystone Montana 3811MS
2017 Ford F450 diesel dually
600AH Battle Born Lithium Batteries, 1,080 watts solar
3,000 watt hybrid inverter with 120A charger
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07-20-2020, 03:32 AM
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#14
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Established Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Boyers
Posts: 45
M.O.C. #24426
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My first thought was a ground problem, fast check would be to run a ground wire from battery Neg. to ground wire on rear lights, just temp. on outside of RV. If this helps the dim lights, then I would fish it back to rear permanently. Just a way to track down a ground problem. Good Luck
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07-20-2020, 08:13 AM
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#15
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New Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Sturgis
Posts: 8
M.O.C. #26072
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I will certainly try that when I get the unit back from having the hitch reinforced. Thanks everyone! I’ll let you know what I find when I dig into it more.
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10-02-2020, 03:50 PM
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#16
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New Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Sturgis
Posts: 8
M.O.C. #26072
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Well, I wasn't able to find where that ground was being lifted at so I just ran another ground wire over to the LH tail light and now I have good illumination on the RH side. The porch light still comes on with the running lights, but everything seems to work, so I'm gonna leave it alone until I have a problem with something.
I have running lights, tail lights, turn signals, brakes/lights, and nothing is currently on fire, So I'm going to count it as a win for now. Thanks everybody!
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