Theory on Snowbird demographic change - Montana Owners Club

dsprik · 11-16-2006, 01:06 PM

Just a thought for my fellow MOCers to shoot holes in...

I am getting input into my fuzzy brain that has caused me to speculate. I am hearing two distinct sets of comments coming from those looking for winter CGs.

First, in the SW, I am hearing people saying that they are finding that they have noticed lighter CGs loads in many cases - not all. The mention of not having to bother making reservations in the SW is surprising.

I was hoping that that situation would be mirrored here in Central Florida. That was not the case. Most parks here are booked solid and we currently are hanging on to the last 30 amp site in this one CG that we could find room at. We do not have any guarantees that we will have a site after Dec 1st.

After talking to several CGs around here, we are convinced that several more long term CGs could be supported here. People are being turned away every day I am in the office here.

OK - here's my thought... Many of the NE and Midwestern (E of the Mississippi) Snowbirds seem not willing to make their normal SW trek to their winter havens this year. Seems they may be shifting to the SE (Florida) due the cost of fuel. Huge difference in fuel cost now for that additional 1000-1500 mile trip (one way), as compared to just sliding south to Florida.

I have not done extensive research on this. Just a thought...

boylanag · 11-16-2006, 01:26 PM

We are doing the opposite - have gone to Florida previously and are going to the SW this year. When in Florida we regularly commented on how crowded most of FL was - traffic and people. When we were at the Goshen rally, so many of you told great tales of the RGV and AZ that we thought we would go see it this year for ourselves and then we could compare more fairly. We are leaving after the holidays and just hope that we can get out of here in mid-January without getting snowed in. Glenn, we heard you, too, and do like your area of the state very much.

DiananColin · 11-16-2006, 01:44 PM

Dave and Cheryl. There may still be room at Bay Bayou in Tampa. You could give them a try. I do know a few weeks ago they had space. We have our Montana there but travel back and forth to Canada for work approx every 6 weeks through the Winter. We are in Ontario now until after Christmas. It is a 5 star site and we are very happy there. Diana

Montana Sky · 11-16-2006, 05:35 PM

This is one of the reasons I am looking at buying a lot down in the Phoenix area. I control when the site is rented, and when I want it for how ever long my stay is going to be. I was talking with a guy who works at one of the rv parks here in town. They are seeing more and more folks living in their rv instead of buying a home, or maintaining a home. Cheaper for them, plus it gives those folks the added freedom to come and go as they want. With the last round of home inflation, living in my own coach would be a much cheaper route.

gkbutler · 11-16-2006, 09:25 PM

We were looking around our park yesterday and noticed that there are more empty sites than there were last year. Don't know if they are booked later in the year or not. We are in an older park in SW Florida, so the majority of the sites are 30 amps and tend to be on the smaller side. Name of the resort is Kountree Kampinn in Naples, FL. It is a nice park with all of the amenities included in the rent. Nice pool and rec room with activities throughout the winter.

We also observed that the traffic is not as heavy as last year. We have wondered if it is because people have decided to stay closer to home this winter, or if the "season" hasn't gotten into full swing down here yet.

Glenn and Lorraine · 11-16-2006, 11:16 PM

Gary and Karen, I think you'll find that most of the Snowbirds just haven't arrived as yet. Right now our park looks like a ghost town but by the end of December beginning of January we will be full.

Dave, I found the attached Clearwater area list in some of my old files. I know you're looking in the Disney area but just in case. I can only recommend a few of them so if you're interested let me know and I'll try to give ya more info.

http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=4e0v62x

old turbo · 11-17-2006, 12:51 AM

Dave,I found an article in a magazine a while back about Florida campgrounds. A lot of the parks are selling out to developers for condos and housing developments.Prime land is getting scarce down there,plus you have to compete with all the east coast folks. I doubt you will see much of a move to put in any campgrounds. I am going to LosFresnos, TX. at the end of Dec. The parks in Florida were to expensive for us. The park we are going to has 40x90 sites, lots of room in Texas

richfaa · 11-17-2006, 12:53 AM

I think there is some truth to Dav's theory. We have limited experience but we had no problem reserving for the "peak" winter months in good parks in Az in the last month when we were advised by experienced snowbirds that we needed to reserve way in advance.Upon questioning more than one C.G said that folks from the Eastern States that normally came SW in large numbers were not showing up. The recent drop in fuel prices may turn that around.... We found Florida, from about Ft Myers down, too expensive.

wileecoyote985 · 11-17-2006, 04:45 AM

Been wintering in Florida for a number of years, but have been to the SW and would like to return for a more extensive visit. The added fuel costs have put that desire on hold though.

Bill Frisbee · 11-17-2006, 04:53 AM

Is there any sense that the "immigration issues" along the Mexican border have had a negative impact on people "wintering" in the RGV or other areas close to Mexico?

richfaa · 11-17-2006, 06:26 AM

Bill, In our case yes..We were planning on spending some time im Yuma this winter but some friends of ours who live there said to go somewhere else unless I wanted to join the minutemen and patrol the border..

Cat320 · 11-17-2006, 06:40 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Glenn and Lorraine

Gary and Karen, I think you'll find that most of the Snowbirds just haven't arrived as yet. Right now our park looks like a ghost town but by the end of December beginning of January we will be full.

Dave, I found the attached Clearwater area list in some of my old files. I know you're looking in the Disney area but just in case. I can only recommend a few of them so if you're interested let me know and I'll try to give ya more info.

http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=4e0v62x

That's what the folks in Phoenix are saying...the hard core snowbirds are not here yet. We are in NW PHX now (Surprise) and there is lots of room with lots of daily turnover. Come Jan they are booked solid.

Montana_6085 · 11-17-2006, 07:20 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Montana Sky

This is one of the reasons I am looking at buying a lot down in the Phoenix area. I control when the site is rented, and when I want it for how ever long my stay is going to be. I was talking with a guy who works at one of the rv parks here in town. They are seeing more and more folks living in their rv instead of buying a home, or maintaining a home. Cheaper for them, plus it gives those folks the added freedom to come and go as they want. With the last round of home inflation, living in my own coach would be a much cheaper route.

Hey there!!! Lots of people are going the way of the Southwest. Check this out if you are seriopus about having a place close to Phoenix.

http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=18309

GQ

richfaa · 11-17-2006, 07:41 AM

Montana Sky.. We have appointments to look at permanent campsites at two C.G's while we are in Az.One of them is at the Resort we are staying for a month and are getting some free days at the resort for looking...On of our many alternatives is to leave the Montana on a permanent Campsite (down the road) . We nearly bought a site in the Mesa area some years ago.(should have done it then) as it more than tripled in value.

dsprik · 11-17-2006, 03:59 PM

OK... just got in. I have spent the day yesterday and today running around in Disney World. Cheryl has just gotten a job at Disney. Hostess at the Port Orleans resturaunt. She also went out and got a job at the Rain Forest Cafe. She plans on working a couple days a week at each. Unbelievable perks.

That means we have to stay near Disney somewhere. We are 15-20 min away now here at Mouse Mountain RV Resort. We have no guarantee we can stay past Dec 1st. There are a few CGs around here that have space, but the facilities are not good, to put it mildly.

Diana: Thanks for your input. We have friends in the Tampa area, as well as Glenn and Lorraine. However, as I mentioned, I hate to get too much further away from Disney.

Dave (Montana Sky): I agree 100% with your assessment of RV living.

Glenn: Thanks for the list. I will file that anyway. May take another close look at the Rainbow Chase CG...

Terry (Old Turbo): You are exactly right about developers buying up all the land. A CG right next to us lies abandoned right now. The owner sold it to a developer (there is a HUGE development going in across the road). Unfortunately, Polk county just passed an ordinance freezing all new development for now - the rate of development was apparently scaring some of the county officials. This CG - not sure how many acres. Maybe 30 or so - small CG) sold for $14 million. And it it is the middle of nowhere (for now). Nearest gas station is 3 miles away - nearest diesel is 5 miles.

Heard a Tampa TV news report a few days ago about condo developers suddenly feeling the housing slowdown pinch and they are having a hard time getting rid of the units for a loss. I was told by a local resident that while that may be the case on the coasts, that is NOT the case in Central FL - especially within 20 miles of Disney.

BTW, Terry, I taught and coached for 2 years (1987-1989) in Reese. Mayville was in our conference.

Rich: I will be curious to see how this pans out on any major shift over this next year or two. It really makes sense if you think about it. Many fixed income retirees must be seriously looking at their fuel budget for their annual trek. I know wileecoyote985 isn't the only one thinking this way. I'm sure snowbirds will not elect to totally scrap moving out of winter weather - just maybe go to somewhere closer where they don't have to shovel snow...

Rich (2nd): I can't let your post on the Minutemen pass without comment... You'd make a GREAT minuteman, Rich! Just bring the bird... If that fails, Helen is standing in the wings to "clean up". No one would dare mess with her.

Maybe you could get a free full H/U???

smc · 11-18-2006, 12:20 AM

rihfaa: could you explain what your friends mean. Yes, Yuma is the "leakiest" border, but it has never affected us in any way.

kdeiss · 11-18-2006, 01:02 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Montana Sky.. We have appointments to look at permanent campsites at two C.G's while we are in Az.One of them is at the Resort we are staying for a month and are getting some free days at the resort for looking...On of our many alternatives is to leave the Montana on a permanent Campsite (down the road) . We nearly bought a site in the Mesa area some years ago.(should have done it then) as it more than tripled in value.

Rich, what is the drive time or miles to AZ> from Cleveland?

richfaa · 11-18-2006, 02:20 AM

Kdeiss,,It is 2146.6 miles from Our Driveway to Lake Havasu, Az, Est driving time 29 hours 38 mins.Via , Columbus, Ohio, Indianaoplis, Ind. St Louis, Mo, OKC. Amarillo, Etc on to Az,Prefered route Weather cooperating.

SMC,,No I can't explain other than to say that several of our camping friends and a friend who lives there advised that there are much better places to go it light of "problems" associated with being so close to the border and all that goes with it...http://www.yumasun.com/artman/publish/immigration.php

Dave..I never considerd the "Minutebird" good idea.

kdeiss · 11-18-2006, 06:56 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Kdeiss,,It is 2146.6 miles from Our Driveway to Lake Havasu, Az, Est driving time 29 hours 38 mins.Via , Columbus, Ohio, Indianaoplis, Ind. St Louis, Mo, OKC. Amarillo, Etc on to Az,Prefered route Weather cooperating.

SMC,,No I can't explain other than to say that several of our camping friends and a friend who lives there advised that there are much better places to go it light of "problems" associated with being so close to the border and all that goes with it...http://www.yumasun.com/artman/publish/immigration.php

Dave..I never considerd the "Minutebird" good idea.

Rich, Thanks that is a long drive!

richfaa · 11-18-2006, 08:41 AM

Yes it is Ken but we have 15 Days or more to get there,,The joy of Retirement.Our schedule is flexible.

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