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Old 08-05-2021, 03:11 AM   #1
SouthwestCVO
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Math hurts

Yes, another "can my truck pull my RV" thread. Sorry, but math hurts my brain and I just want to be safe and make sure my new truck is capable to tow my new rig.

I recently bought a 2021 F350 SWD diesel and a 2021 3120RL. Based on my research and limited knowledge (our first RV), I think I am okay with my current truck configuration but I just want reassurance from the experts (this awesome forum). I've attached photos of my trucks door stickers and the rig.

Any help is greatly appreciated!
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Old 08-05-2021, 04:48 AM   #2
jfaberna
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I agree, you want to make sure. I sat down with my dealer's commercial truck dude and we went to the Manufacturer's website and pulled down the towing spec for their trucks for that model year.

It's a long list with every model they make. You need to know the transmission type, axle ratio, etc. along with the stuff on your door sticker. There is no math involved with using that table. For example on my truck under the model of mine was an entry for each transmission model and axle gear and just found mine and looked at the 5th wheel towing column.

The one caveat you need to think about is that table is based on a few assumed facts like nothing in the truck or bed except for one 154lb driver. So I had to add 100lfb for me, and more weight for the DW, any pets, generator, toolbox, extra fuel tanks, etc.

In my case was 200lb over the limit prior to adding the normal stuff you need in a truck when towing, so I had to order a DRW and increase the axle ratio to 3.73
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Old 08-05-2021, 05:23 AM   #3
Marc Daigle
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Ford Towing

Attached is the Ford towing guide. I hope this helps.

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File Type: pdf 2021 Ford RV & Trailer Towing Guide.pdf (102.2 KB, 214 views)
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Old 08-05-2021, 05:26 AM   #4
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You are most likely within the margin. Ideally, you would still want to visit a CAT scale with just your truck first, containing whatever you normally travel with, a full tank of fuel, etc. That will give you a weight the you would need to subtract from the GVWR of 12,400 lbs. The remainder is your payload. Then hook up the 5er and weigh again. With the 5er connected, you can get a pin weight based on the difference your rear axle weighs with and without the 5er. You'll want to make sure that this value is less than the 7230lb rear GAWR (rear axle rating). Also, you want to make sure that the overall truck weight is less than the GVWR of 12,400 lbs.
Additionally, the weight of the trailer should be less than its 16,000 GVWR or it is overloaded. Based on your sticker, the unloaded weight of the trailer, before you add any stuff, is around 12,470 lbs. If we assume 20-25% pin weight (just an average), that would mean your truck has 2,494 to 3,118 lbs. added with the 5er hooked up and empty. Your payload sticker, the last one with tire info, says you have 4407 lbs payload on the truck, which means you're likely ok.
All of this has a lot of assumptions, so CAT scale tickets with just the truck, and with the truck and 5er would give you real world numbers. The biggest thing to remember is that anything you load in the 5er or truck would add to the numbers, including passengers. Also, if you can get weighed on a CAT scale, you can get individual axle weights for the 5er. Each axle is 7,000 lbs rating. Loading stuff in the 5er and riding nose high or low can all effect how much weight is on your truck, and each axle. With a SRW, you don't have a huge margin. Many will say you need a dually, but realistically you are likely OK with your SRW truck. Just don't overload the truck or 5er.
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Old 08-05-2021, 07:16 AM   #5
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Ditto RMcNeal. Weighing is the only way to know for sure. Towing guides are just that, guides. I would suggest on the way for your next trip, go to the scales loaded.

Also, you may need at least a non commercial class A license if the trailer gvwr is 16,000 lbs.
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Old 08-05-2021, 07:29 AM   #6
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Visit the CAT scales as others have mentioned, first with your truck loaded as you would when travelling, then with the 5th wheel. Here's a simple sheet to help with the calculations. Best of luck.
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File Type: pdf RV-Weight-chart.pdf (61.6 KB, 188 views)
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Old 08-05-2021, 08:47 AM   #7
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I agree that you need to weigh your truck fully loaded for a trip. Full tank, hitch, passengers, tools, etc.

Now the part that hurts, math.

Forget for the time being how your truck is equipped. This is solely based on the numbers you provided plus some basic facts.
Your trucks cargo capacity is based on the trucks curb weight and GVWR. The manufacturer has determined that your trucks curb weight is 7993 lbs. Subtract that from the GVWR (12400 lbs) and you get your 4407 lbs on your tire sticker.
Curb weight does not include people, full tank, hitch, pets, etc. I assure you, your truck will not weigh 7993 when loaded up for a trip. I don't know your fuel tank size but let's assume it's 37 gallons. Eight lbs/gal for diesel gives you 296 lbs. Now your truck is up to 8289 lbs. Let's add a hitch, 100 lbs. Now you are up to 8389 lbs. Let's add people. Two people, 300 lbs ?. Now you are at 8689 lbs. I have not added pets, tools, bed cover, bed liner, etc. and all the extra stuff folks fill all the cubbies with. Your truck will probably weigh closer to 9000 lbs. For now let's stick with the 8689 lbs. Subtract that from your GVWR (12400 lbs) and you are left with 3711 lbs of cargo capacity.

A previous poster used your RV's unloaded weight for their math. No one travels with an empty RV's except for transporters. So it is unreasonable to use that weight to determine pin weight. Personally, I use the GVWR of the RV to determine the MAX pin weight I will ever have. A fifth wheels pin weight should be 20 - 25 % of the RVs weight. Typically it averages out to around 22%. I use 25% for my math as this automatically gives me a safety cushion as I will never load the RV to its max. In your case the max pin weight would be 4000 lbs. (16000 x 25%) That 4000 lbs exceeds your 3711 lbs from the previous math. Not good. Right now you are saying "I'm not fully loaded like that in the RV". You are right. You will probably be closer to 14000 lbs. So, using 14000 lbs, your max pin weight will be 3500 lbs. Congrats, you are under the trucks remaining cargo capacity, but not by much. And that assumes your truck only weighs 8689 lbs loaded.

This is math that can be done before any purchase is made. Doing the math afterwards usually results in disappointing numbers and a scramble to figure out where to cut weight.

At this point, you need to weight your truck fully loaded. Weight your RV loaded for a trip. Weight the two together.

Personally, I believe you will be right at the limit or over.

JMHO based on the info provided.
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Old 08-05-2021, 09:07 AM   #8
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A nod to "Montana Man" agreement...you WILL need to get a non-commercial Driver's License as California requires same when your trailer/5th wheel GVWR is over 15000 lbs. And the process is a stickler...read up and plan on an involved paper test, inspection test and driving test...and be sure to have a fully licensed driver accompany you when it is time to go to DMV for that testing...DON'T arrive at the DMV without that already licensed driver...or else that "stickler" evaluator will fail you immediately since you drove out of license class to get to DMV!
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Old 08-05-2021, 09:57 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Richard Blackwell View Post
...get a non-commercial Driver's License as California requires same ...
Makes me glad I don't live in California. In Indiana, don't matter what it is, if it's tagged as an RV, a regular drivers license is all that's required.

RV transport workers do need a difference license. But not the average normal, every day driver.
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Old 08-05-2021, 10:21 AM   #10
432bartman
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Looking at your trailer specs, your hitch weight is 2,280lbs. overall GVWR is 16,000lbs. Your new F-350 is more than adequate.
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Old 08-05-2021, 12:17 PM   #11
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Ryan,

If you are close to your max weight on the truck, keep your fresh water tank full. The fresh tank is aft of the axles and will reduce pin weight when full.
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Old 08-05-2021, 01:49 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by jfaberna View Post
...

In my case was 200lb over the limit prior to adding the normal stuff you need in a truck when towing, so I had to order a DRW and increase the axle ratio to 3.73
With the newer trucks, at least 2020+, I'd make the argument that you should get the LOWEST gear ratio available on the configuration you buy. We have a 2020 Chevy with a Duramax and 3.42 gears (SRW, which is the lowest available), and we have NO issues pulling at all, and our engine isn't pulling it's guts out wrapped up when we are on the road.

With the power that the new trucks make, and especially the 10-speed trannies, there is PLENTY of power there, unless you plan on just pulling around 30,000 lbs all of the time...

JMHO, and yours may vary for sure...
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Old 08-05-2021, 03:39 PM   #13
SouthwestCVO
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Thank all for the great advice. I have a CAT scale near my house so ill bring the truck and trailer down there before our first big trip. Just to be safe and for peace of mind.
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Old 08-06-2021, 01:10 AM   #14
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Forgot to mention, if you have a smart phone, you can download the Cat Scale app and it will make your life much easier at the scales. Also, you'll get PDF's emailed to you with the weigh ticket instead of having to go inside and get a paper copy that's not readable half the time. The last time I used it, it was $12.00 to weigh if memory serves.
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Old 08-06-2021, 01:39 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by RMcNeal View Post
Forgot to mention, if you have a smart phone, you can download the Cat Scale app and it will make your life much easier at the scales. Also, you'll get PDF's emailed to you with the weigh ticket instead of having to go inside and get a paper copy that's not readable half the time. The last time I used it, it was $12.00 to weigh if memory serves.
Good to know. Thank you
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Old 08-11-2021, 01:42 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by SouthwestCVO View Post
Yes, another "can my truck pull my RV" thread. Sorry, but math hurts my brain and I just want to be safe and make sure my new truck is capable to tow my new rig.

I recently bought a 2021 F350 SWD diesel and a 2021 3120RL. Based on my research and limited knowledge (our first RV), I think I am okay with my current truck configuration but I just want reassurance from the experts (this awesome forum). I've attached photos of my trucks door stickers and the rig.

Any help is greatly appreciated!
Like the sticker says, you are allowed 4,407 lbs. That is every single ounce added to the truck since it left the factory door including fluids, people, floor mats, and the main item is the pin weight. Just a ballpark, but if trailer is fully loaded (they all are) you are 16,000 and a 22% pin weight is common so that is only 3,520 leaving 887 for everything else. You should be good. I also have a 8T unit so went dually. It actually carries less but handles so much better.
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Old 08-11-2021, 01:50 PM   #17
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Math hurts

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthwestCVO View Post
Yes, another "can my truck pull my RV" thread. Sorry, but math hurts my brain and I just want to be safe and make sure my new truck is capable to tow my new rig.

I recently bought a 2021 F350 SWD diesel and a 2021 3120RL. Based on my research and limited knowledge (our first RV), I think I am okay with my current truck configuration but I just want reassurance from the experts (this awesome forum). I've attached photos of my trucks door stickers and the rig.

Any help is greatly appreciated!
If your new 350 Ford won’t that 3121 Montana nothing will 😎
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Old 08-11-2021, 02:42 PM   #18
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I have a 2019 F-350 SWR diesel 4x4 short bed and pull a 2020 Montana 3121RL all over the country! I bought a new BW 18K slider hitch and wow what a difference that made also. I've pulled up 6% grades and fell down 6% grades with absolutely NO problems at all. I love the jake brake and use it all the time pulling the mountains of Colorado and even on the highway up to Flagstaff. Love it. I'm sure you will not have any problems. I DO NOT pull full of water, just enough for a flush a two for the wife. Enjoy your rig and NEVER pull down the road with the shades pulled down, you will learn to regret it if you do! I learned the hard way!! Enjoy the Montana, the truck and please be safe out there!!
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Old 08-11-2021, 03:56 PM   #19
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Your trailer has a hitch weight of 2420... That's alot... trailer is abourt 12k.. That's not the issue.... What is KILLING you is the Truck's GVWR of 12400.. That truck most likely is hitting 10k with you and partner in it.. Leaving 2400 lbs... Subtract for Fuel, for the Hitch then the hitch weight loaded with the trailer... youll be close and possibly over...
But then again, I see people pulling even tow haulers with 3/4 tons...Forget the GVWR of the Trailer!!! You'd have to put a full size car like a Chrysler 300 hemi in it to hit the GVWR.. What you are concerned with is YOUR tow weight and the :HITCH weight... Due to the SRW being limited in Payload ID feel better with a Dually..
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Old 08-11-2021, 04:52 PM   #20
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FWIW, our 2019 3121 packed for an extended trip had a pin weight of almost 3500lbs.
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