Reduce pin weight? - Montana Owners Club

BirdingRVer · 09-15-2008, 02:20 PM

Under the problem I have had with my landing gear I touched on the repair people saying that my 3075 has too much pin weight for the motor.

I always drive with the fresh water tank close to empty. Would adding more fresh water change the balance of my 5th wheel to reduce the pin weight?

Any other ideas to reduce pin weight?

bsmeaton · 09-15-2008, 03:36 PM

If that is truly the case, I would think you should be on the phone to Lippert rather than throwing things overboard. However, it seems like a POOMA to me. I have as much if not more pin weight, and the same motor and it lifts it just fine.

rogue · 09-15-2008, 03:39 PM

Grant, I too have thought about that. I plan next time out to fill the tank, and do some weights. I can then let the water out and weigh again (since Oregon Weight stations when closed leave the scales on). Probably will not be until mid Oct for the next trip out. Will post here when I find out.

Bob

ols1932 · 09-16-2008, 04:52 AM

On our rig, I've increased the pin weight considerably when you consider the weight of my two Lifeline D8 batteries (about 150 lbs each) and all the "junk" we're carrying. Yet our landing gear motor seems to work fine. It's the second motor because the first one burned out coming down the Big Horn mountains in Wyoming about five years ago when something in the storage area fell against the switch and ran the legs all the way up.

What I'm wondering Grant, is if there isn't a possibility that one of the legs is binding. We had that happen one time and Keystone replaced the leg. I believe that if there is the slightest bend or indentation in the leg that it will cause some binding. In addition, I was cautioned against lubricating the legs because the grease collects dirt and can be something else that causes improper landing gear operation. I'm not saying that these are your causes, just passing on some of my experiences.

Orv

BB_TX · 09-16-2008, 05:06 AM

I also have a 3075RL and oddly enough, the 3075 has a higher pin weight than any other Montana model. It is as much as a few hundred pounds heavier pin weight that some of the longer models. I suppose due to the placement of the axles with respect to the overall trailer.
http://keystone-montana.com/?page=specs
But so far (14 months, 6000 miles, 51 nights) I have had no problems with my landing gear working properly. I do usually carry the fresh water tank about half full. But we also have a lot of "stuff" packed away in the basement and front compartment that adds a lot of weight.

BirdingRVer · 09-16-2008, 05:15 AM

Thanks Orv,

The RV Repair place says that the legs aren't binding. I am not sure how they can tell. I am wondering if the motor has gotten weak just over time. You can hear it straining.

I know most Montana owners don't report a problem but, there do seem to be a lot of discussion about blown fuses.

I am also wonder if I have been raising the trailer too high to get under the air hitch. When the trailer weight goes on the truck the combination of the air bags and the springs taking the weight cause the truck to drop about 6 inches. In drive position the truck and trailer are perfectly level.

On the very rough roads we have traveled this summer I can't imagine not having the Trailer Saver Hitch!

ols1932 · 09-16-2008, 09:51 AM

Grant,
How much air pressure do you carry int the trailer hitch air bags? The height of the hitch when not connected to the rig shouldn't be too high. When I disconnect, I note the height of the king pin when it just barely comes loose from the hitch (I have a level on the side of the rig that has a movable pointer on it that allows me to pinpoint the center of the bubble). This allows me to return to the same point when I hook up again.

Orv

TLightning · 09-18-2008, 02:30 PM

I do not think it's a pin weight problem. Many Montanas have heavy PWs, but no problems with the landing gear. Seems to me it's a problem with the gears, motor, something binding, etc.

Mrs. CountryGuy · 09-18-2008, 03:03 PM

well, IE ate up my response, so, lets see if I can manage to re-write it, GRRR

OKKKK, It took 3 years from the first time we had clunking with our unit till total failure.

The electric motors on these things are rated to lift 5000 pounds. Lippert put our unit on some really fancy dancy expensive digital scales and we were within 300 pounds of the max 5000 pounds.

questions: where are these motors made??

is the rating really accurate?? so, will it really lift 5000 pounds??

Our take on it, our OPINION, is that we were wayyyyy toooooo close to the rated limits.

When is the last time you had your unit weighed (fully loaded as if you were ready to hit the road, wife, kids, dogs, cats, gear, bikes, boats, food, drinks of choice, clothing, bathing suits, campfire gear, etc etc etc.)

anyway, one 5000 rated lift electric motor may or may not be what will do the job for you.

You know how we always talk here at MOC about 6000 pound axles vs the listed weights, some think the margins are tooooooooooo thin?? Ditto with tires, not rated for the weights we carry, margin toooooo thin?? Well, Al and I feel the same about one 5000 rated lift electric motor and our 3295. Our opinion.

Good luck in your research on this problem BirdingRVer.

garyka · 09-19-2008, 01:38 AM

Most of s carry a lot of weight up front and do not have landing gear problems due to weight less your still hooked up to your tow vehicle and trying to change the tires.sounds like you got a answer from a PIN head.

Imp · 09-19-2008, 06:13 AM

You say it is straining.. is it a battery problem? When our battery was going bad, we had a problem with the slides going out. Maybe it is the same with the landing gear... I don't know all the technical stuff, but what say all of you experts!!! Especially if you are trying to raise them with battery power only.

Mrs. CountryGuy · 09-19-2008, 06:36 AM

Myra, in our case it is or was not the battery, good thing to think about tho.

TLightning · 09-19-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Mrs. CountryGuy

The electric motors on these things are rated to lift 5000 pounds. Lippert put our unit on some really fancy dancy expensive digital scales and we were within 300 pounds of the max 5000 pounds.

Am I missing something? Are you saying you had 4,700# of pin weight??

Mrs. CountryGuy · 09-19-2008, 01:39 PM

Nope, as I explained in my previous posts, Lippert put digital scales under each landing leg and then put all the weight on them, no truck, no nothing to support it.

BTW, I believe the pin weight of our unit, when substantially loaded for the winter, is about 3200 pounds.

But, that is not what we are discussing here. We are discussing, will that 5000 pound lift rated electric motor lift my unit, or anyones' unit off the hitch, or raise the pin enough to hitch up? Ohhh, without CLUNKING.

When they weighed both legs with those very expensive very accurate digital scales we had about 300 pounds left before we hit the rate of lifting 5000 pounds.

Pin weight is one thing, the weight those landing legs must lift is another number.

Al and I feel that the 300 pounds was just not enough leeway. It is our opinion, and it is just that, an opinion, that the electric motor may be under rated.

TLightning · 09-19-2008, 02:36 PM

Okay, got it...did not RTFP...weight on the gear, not the pin.

Mrs. CountryGuy · 09-19-2008, 03:03 PM

HA HA, been there, done that, the FP stuff.

This is a complicated business we play at!

bsmeaton · 09-19-2008, 06:38 PM

When I first went to the CAT Scales with my loaded rig, I set the legs down on the center scale, released the hitch and measured the landing gear thinking it was pin weight. I think you corrected me on that Lightning!

Wish I could remember where I put the scale receipt so I could see the weight, but it was not 5,000lbs. It was closer to 3,800lbs I believe, which caught several peoples eye when I advertised it as pin weight.

clarkandsheila · 09-19-2008, 06:49 PM

Make sure your battery is in good condition. Some voltage drop at the battery terminals is normal when the motor is operating but if the battery is getting on there will be too much volt drop.
Make sure the cabling is in good condition including the ground points. Poorly made crimps, loose, corroded connections will cause excessive volt drop under operating conditions.
Any excessive loss will mean the motor cannot get the power it needs to operate properly and will eventually burn out.

bsmeaton · 09-19-2008, 07:30 PM

There is a lot to what you just said Clark -

I remember testing auto charging and starting systems, and a starter motor that would initially draw 220A @ 11 volts would sharply increase to twice that draw if the battery voltage started dropping below 11 volts. I wonder if the shop was also watching voltage as they measured amperage on the motor.

Dean A Van Peursem · 09-21-2008, 04:04 PM

I don't think the problem is that you are rasing the pin too high when disconnecting due to the airbags on the truck. But... I usually just put a little weight on the landing legs and then reduce the airpressure in the bags to 5lbs on each side and then only raise the landing legs enough to disconnect comnfortably. SAVES TIME TOO.

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