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12-28-2006, 04:52 AM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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RVIA..Who are they
What does that sticker on the side of your camper mean. I was curious so I Googled...Here is who they are."What is RVIA?
The national trade association representing more than 550 manufacturers and component suppliers producing approximately 98 percent of all RVs and conversion vehicles manufactured in the United States"
Here is their definition of your camper.."
What is a Recreation Vehicle (RV)?
A vehicle designed as temporary living quarters for recreational camping, travel or seasonal use. RVs may have their own motor power (as in the case of motor homes); may be mounted (as are truck campers); or towed by another vehicle (as are travel trailers and folding camping trailers). Not included in the RV definition are conversion vehicles, off-road vehicles and manufactured housing for long-term residence (park trailers and mobile homes"
What are these NFPA 1192 Rv standards?
". What standards do I need to use when building an RV?
A. ANSI/NFPA 1192 Standard for Recreational Vehicles NFPA 70 National Electrical Code (NOT AVAILABLE THROUGH RVIA - To order from NFPA call: 1-800-344-3555 or visit http://www.nfpa.org/catalog
ANSI/RVIA 12V Standard for Low Voltage Systems on Recreational and Conversion Vehicles
A helpful but not necessary publication would be RVIA's Guide to 1192 which includes sections on all three publications listed above.
Now the good part.. The standards are RVIA "Adopted Standards".. They are "Voluntary Industry Standards".. The RVIA is not a Governmental agency.There is no enforcement. The standards are "certified" by the Manufacturer. The manufacturer polices themselves...What a deal.
Do a Google..makes for interesting reading..but have a lot of time..and be aware..Education can be scary.
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12-28-2006, 04:58 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere
Posts: 912
M.O.C. #6260
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Yeah and it costs us $65 bucks to have our unit certified to a fictional standard, ain't America great...
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12-28-2006, 05:14 AM
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#3
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Cascade
Posts: 52
M.O.C. #5556
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On our invoice the charge for the RVIA seal was $91.45. And it's not an option! I tried!
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12-28-2006, 12:11 PM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Green Valley
Posts: 1,618
M.O.C. #6022
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The RVIA seal is listed on my price sheet as an option--darned if I'm paying big bucks for a seal from a voluntary association. Don't see what value it has to me.
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12-28-2006, 12:17 PM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,695
M.O.C. #5751
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by David and Jo-Anna
The RVIA seal is listed on my price sheet as an option--darned if I'm paying big bucks for a seal from a voluntary association. Don't see what value it has to me.
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Although not listed as one, I think you will find the seal is one of Montana's infamous "mandatory options."
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12-28-2006, 12:56 PM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Clearwater
Posts: 10,917
M.O.C. #420
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Richfaa, What really amazes me is with all the research you did prior to the purchase of your new Monty and your F-350 and your very varied working career you are just finding this out.
Trade associations have been around since Henry Ford built his first automobile. Nearly every product manufactured has it own trade association. And every trade association has guidelines for the product(s) they represent and the cost of doing business with such associations has a cost factor and like any other cost factor it is passed on to us, the end user. In the case of RVs it's as a mandatory option and decal. When you look at the total price I find $65 or $91 to be really an insignificant amount. They could have just as easily placed the seal on the rig and just added the $65 or $91 into the total cost and no one here would have a single complaint about it. Again these associations have guidelines and no manufacturing member is required to follow these guidelines although many do including Keystone and probably all manufacturers of RVs and their components.
This seems to happen every winter. There just seems to be times when our rigs are put away for the winter or we are set up in our winter quarters and we become bored. So we start nit picking everything and anything relating to the cost of our TVs or RVs. We really got to get a life beyond the winter doldrums.
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12-28-2006, 01:59 PM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,568
M.O.C. #4890
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They give themselves permission to build units that don't meet the basic safety requirements of any building code of any city in North America. My pet peeve, no stair safety rail on the steps up into the bedroom. I put my own rail up before we ever spent a night in our unit. Think about it, most people that buy RV's like Montanas are no spring chickens and stairway accidents are so common that some companies absolutety enforce using a stairway with one hand on the stair rail. Enforcing this rule has prevented many face plants, ripped shoulder muscles and other unpleasant injuries. Keystone, here is a chance to out shine the competition.
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12-28-2006, 05:59 PM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Glenn..I knew that.. Remember We at one time sold these things. I never said anything about what the decal cost. never cared. Granted we never looked that deeply into the subject and when you do it is"enlightening"Thought others might like to share in the "enlightenment"in these slow and boring times. There are some folks that think these things are actually built to some enforceable standards.Our Montana is not put up for the winter..it is as we speak having the daylights being shaken out of it in 30 MPH winds gust to 50..here in Arizona.Don't know how we will get any sleep with all the banging and flapping going on.As I type this my Laptop is moving around.
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12-28-2006, 07:17 PM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Leona
Posts: 6,382
M.O.C. #2059
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AAARRRRRGGGGG!!!!! Too much information. I would rather dream on in my ignorance that some great benefactor was looking out for us. Oh well, another illusion shattered by the terror of reality.
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12-28-2006, 09:55 PM
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#10
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Denton
Posts: 376
M.O.C. #5993
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As the evolution of our great country has brought the RV into existance, who would have figured that this evolution would include people longtiming/fulltiming in them. Just as new words are invented to accomidate this evolution so should the manufactures in making there product to accomidate the use. It is the consumer that controls this evolution involving the safety and quality of the product that makes this country so great. Freedom with expense to those that choose to be greedy and not follow this evolution will result in their demise.
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12-29-2006, 01:35 AM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,568
M.O.C. #4890
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While on the subject of expensive stickers that don't insure any real type of quality control, please don't leave out our CSA sticker for units brought into Canada. This wonderful emblem adds hundreds of dollars to a new unit and really does diddly squat. Of couse us Canadians are so used to over taxation that we almost expect extra charges on every thing we buy and we are seldom dissapointed. Man, do I love shopping in Oregon, USA.
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12-29-2006, 03:40 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Tom..That is very well said..
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12-29-2006, 04:23 AM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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The NFPA Codes and Standards themselves are voluntary and written by volunteers (mixture of vendors and government officials), which often means whoever happens to have the expertise in the field with extra time and an expense account. These are published as a product for profit, in hopes that they will be adopted by the governing agency (note the "registered trademark" of the Nat Elect Code and Life Safety Code"). The building codes work the same way, comprised of a group of building official volunteers. The building code and NFPA often are direct competitors for the market.
These are all voluntary codes and standards. Unless adopted by city or county ordancances for construction - they mean nothing.
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12-29-2006, 04:48 AM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 2,232
M.O.C. #2975
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Glen you said it very well. We agree with you all the way!
Also our opinion....
Not everyone is suited for the RV way of life. Nor should buy a Montana. If the Montana is not perfect enough then maybe people should look elsewhere. Or put out the big bucks for a $100,000 + brand.
We are happy with our Montana and will buy another and another. We do not expect it to do things it is not designed to do.
Dusty
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12-29-2006, 06:36 AM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere
Posts: 912
M.O.C. #6260
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Don, I agree. It seems to me we are getting a good value for what we paid. This is not a 100K unit and I do not expect it to be. It does, however, exceed my expectations based on the other units we have had in this price/class range.
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12-29-2006, 06:41 AM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Ye Gads..Didn't mean to get anyone worked up about the RVIA..Just thought it might be interesting information and I did say that education may be scary. I know that when we did something as simple as running 50 amp service out to our Camper we had to get a building permit, The contractor had to buy materials that met "code" and the building inspector inspected it for code before we could turn it on.. Does that happen in the RV industry??... Maybe Keystone adheres to the NFPA code to the letter...do you think??? and if there Are Rv'ers that care not about any of those things...that's good.And..there is no reason to believe that the manufacturer of the 100K brand applies any of the "voluntary codes"It would concern me if a contractor could build my house and not have to conform to any code if he did not want to..why any different in a RV..I guess We are just too picky...
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12-29-2006, 06:55 AM
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#17
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 2,232
M.O.C. #2975
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I am a licensed Master Electrician and I do care about building codes and the way our Monty is built. I have gone over the Monty and so far have not seen anything that I did not expect. I have tightened some wires and added a few circuit's and run some things off their own circuits in order to be safe. That is all I have to say on this.
Don
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12-29-2006, 12:02 PM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Down the Road
Posts: 5,627
M.O.C. #889
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12-29-2006, 02:07 PM
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#19
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Clearwater
Posts: 10,917
M.O.C. #420
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa
I guess We are just too picky...
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Amen to that.
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12-29-2006, 02:13 PM
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#20
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Clearwater
Posts: 10,917
M.O.C. #420
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by bsmeaton
The NFPA Codes and Standards themselves are voluntary and written by volunteers (mixture of vendors and government officials), which often means whoever happens to have the expertise in the field with extra time and an expense account. These are published as a product for profit, in hopes that they will be adopted by the governing agency (note the "registered trademark" of the Nat Elect Code and Life Safety Code"). The building codes work the same way, comprised of a group of building official volunteers. The building code and NFPA often are direct competitors for the market.
These are all voluntary codes and standards. Unless adopted by city or county ordancances for construction - they mean nothing.
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Brad,
Having worked in the industrial safety business and as a firefighter I was very aware of the NFPA and you would be quite surpised how many NFPA codes/standards have been adopted by OSHA. Many of the NFPA codes/standards are now Federal laws protecting our workers
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