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Old 05-16-2005, 05:16 AM   #1
Bowie
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Aurora
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M.O.C. #1475
Warning--black tank valve failure

We are currently in discussions with our dealer regarding the possible failure of the black tank valve. Will not bore you with all the horrible details--your imaginations will suffice. We'll let you know the outcome once all the negotiations are done. Pat is lobbying for replacement of her shoes as well as the usual warranty requests. As you might guess, the shoes went in the trash in a plastic bag. She was not a happy camper!!

Now to the part of interest to all on the forum. Early signs of leakage and eventual total failure of the valve (catastrophe of the ultimate sort) is what appears to be heavy residual water left in the pipe when you open it after you know it had been totally emptied and the valve closed before the next usage and obviously still closed when the cap is removed. If you notice this, the placement of a bucket (used for no other purpose!) under the pipe when opening the cap (which is something we do as a matter of course) is essential. This will take care of all but the worst of the warnings of imminent failure. (Our event was the worst type of warning--thank God not a total failure--which I guess would beggar all description) This should give you an opportunity to shut the system down and get the rig to a dealer who can replace the valve before you find yourself awash. Our advice is not to hesitate to have the valve checked if you have any idea that it might be in failure mode.

Anyone else have a problem with the valve failure?

Oh the discussions we get into on this forum!!!


 
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Old 05-16-2005, 07:28 AM   #2
stiles watson
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M.O.C. #2059
The last trip out, when I opened the sewer drain cover, I had about a pint of fluid discharge. This surprised me since I had emptied and flushed and closed all valves. This was the first time that had happened. Are you saying that what I described is a precursor to valve failure? What is it about the valve that fails, if you know? Or is it a build up of material on the slide that prevents it's closing thoroughly? Did your valve require replacing or just cleaning?

We put about four gallons of water plus a treatment dose of black water chemicals into the BW tank. Does this seem to have a corrosive action on the valve components when let setting charged in this way between outings?

I had decided to put a gate valve at the bottom of the drain line to be opened only after everything was hooked up.
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Old 05-16-2005, 10:19 AM   #3
Bowie
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M.O.C. #1475
Stiles, what you described happened to us at the end of last season. Obviously, we cannot say definitively that this is a precursor to total valve failure since the valve has not yet been removed and inspected. What we can say is that after having tanks cleaned and flushed, winterization and then dewinterization all by the dealer, on our first time out this spring we had sufficient "stuff" come out the sewer pipe to drench Pat from the knees down, despite the fact that the black water tank valve was definitely closed, as was the gray water tank valve. (We keep a piece of 2X4 jammed between them and the camper body to insure that accidental openings do not occur.) Research is still being done to determine if there is a slow leak or total failure. Warranty issues are also involved. The actual failure mechanism is unknown to us at the moment. Hopefully the dealer will be able to tell us a bit more. Meanwhile, we can tell you that we have been insanely careful about maintainence of the tanks as we had been hoping to avoid any issues with them. Your gate valve sounds like an interesting concept. We'll keep you posted.
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Old 05-16-2005, 02:24 PM   #4
Montana_738
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Hello,
This has never happened to me but as soon as we purchased our 5er I cut the drain pipe off about 6 inches back from the cap. I then purchased another valve with an exterior handle that I could reach and glued this into place, then cut off enough of the pipe that still had the cap attached to it so it wouldn't extend any further then the original piping. I did this to assure a seal at all times. So otherwise when I am ready to dump I take off my cap install the sewer line open the new valve I installed and then pull the black water handle and dump. When I am through dumping I close the black water handle, disconect my hose and then close the second valve. No accidents and my hands & feet stay clean. I heard about so many problems from other people I didn't want to wait till it happened to me. If you don't understand what I am describing email me and I will take some pictures and send them back via email.
I can't recall what the valve cost me but I'm guessing $20.00 to $25.00, camping world, or your dealer should carry them.
I hope this helps.

Bill
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Old 05-16-2005, 04:09 PM   #5
Montana_1424
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Now that you mention it, I think every time I take the cap off, a little dranage happens, was always wondering why?
I think tomorrow I will pull the cap off just for the hell of it, to see if anything comes out.
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Old 05-16-2005, 05:10 PM   #6
sreigle
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If the little bit of water coming out when the cap is removed is blackwater, then you may have the problem that Bowie describes. If it's gray water, then what you have is common to almost all Montanas. A couple of years ago we discussed this same thing until someone finally nailed the cause. The problem is that the long dump pipe from the galley tank has a low spot. A little water does not drain from that pipe. When you motor down the road the water works its way out of there, down to the dump cap. When you remove the cap, that's what you see. This is not something to be overly concerned about. But if it is blackwater, then you may have the problem Bowie described.

One of our members "solved" the problem with the small amount of graywater coming out of the pipe when the cap is removed by replacing the cap with one of those caps with garden hose connector. He said he just left that connector not quite tight and all that water worked its way out on his way home. I tried it and it works. Later I added the additional slide valve that accuprep describes. I did it to be able to have the gray and galley tank share capacity, extending our time between gray water dumps when not connected to sewer. But that same valve stops that galley gray water from escaping when I remove the dump cap, so long as that extra valve is closed at the time.

Hope that helps keep anyone from being overly concerned by a little gray water escaping when the cap is removed. Black water, though, that's a whole different ballgame, as Bowie described.
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Old 05-16-2005, 11:51 PM   #7
Montana_3696
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our camper has a low point in the drain line that runs from the front gray tank back to the point where we connect the sewer drain line ... consequently, almost every time we would open the cap to attach the drain line we would be blessed with about a quart of gray water discharge ... we found the following valve at Camping World:

http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?deptID=&subOf=44,19&skunum=27868

we have found this valve to be well made and to completely resolve the problem ... I'd think using one would provide cheap insurance against the failures mentioned in this thread

Jim
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Old 05-17-2005, 03:33 AM   #8
Montana_738
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Hello Everyone,
I just went on Camping World to look the valve up for another MOC member that emailed me. They have a twist on valve now that fits onto the sewer cap spot and the cap screws onto that. The item # is 27868, the cost is $17.99 if your a member or $19.99 for non members. This is worth having believe me. Read Sreigles note also, I think all the old timers, (I shouldn't have said that), I mean the experienced RVers have them. (Sorry Steve)

Bill
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Old 05-17-2005, 04:15 AM   #9
drhowell
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M.O.C. #3628
I think the extra valve is a great idea!

I have had other RV's with a small amount of drainage lurking behind the sewer cap in the past. I have a habit of connecting my sewer hose from the dumping station first and make the RV connection last. I hold the hose under the drain cap and carefully loosen the cap slightly. Anything behind the cap dribbles into the hose and then I hook up the hose to the RV. Clean, no mess, no extra bucket to deal with etc. I reverse the procedure when disconnecting.

If you don't mind looking at what drains from your tanks, one of those clear plastic connectors secured to the drain pipe could give you a clue that something is lurking behind the cap!
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Old 05-17-2005, 04:42 AM   #10
sreigle
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by accuprep


I think all the old timers, (I shouldn't have said that), I mean the experienced RVers have them. (Sorry Steve)

Bill
Bill -
You must have checked my profile, Bill! I just checked yours.... and... age 13??

That screw-on valve was not available when I installed the extra valve or I likely would have gone that route. Does anyone know if this valve sticks out beyond the tires? That would be a consideration for me.
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:03 AM   #11
Montana_738
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sreigle

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by accuprep


I think all the old timers, (I shouldn't have said that), I mean the experienced RVers have them. (Sorry Steve)

Bill
Bill -
You must have checked my profile, Bill! I just checked yours.... and... age 13??

Steve, I changed that three times, I don't know why it keeps going back to 13. I'm 65 nad will be 66, 9/9/05. I'm still a young one.
I will try changing it again now.

Bill


That screw-on valve was not available when I installed the extra valve or I likely would have gone that route. Does anyone know if this valve sticks out beyond the tires? That would be a consideration for me.
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:23 AM   #12
Montana_3696
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Quote:
quote:That screw-on valve was not available when I installed the extra valve or I likely would have gone that route. Does anyone know if this valve sticks out beyond the tires? That would be a consideration for me.
installing it between the drain pipe opening and the end cap didn't result in it sticking out beyond the tires on our camper ... I can certainly see how this could be the case and would would depend on the design/construction of a given camper

Jim
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