Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > General Discussions about our Montanas
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-02-2011, 11:34 AM   #1
Superdave
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Burleson
Posts: 100
M.O.C. #6291
propane regulator freeze

we're in Texas in this cold front and I'm not ale to get the gas furnace - which has been working fine until today- to light. I have two full bottles, the indicator bubble comes up into the green , but when the heater tries to ignite, it throws the indicator back to the red zone.
getting the second bottle filled today, the propane guy said that he's had several people with rv's in and they were having heater issues also. Said that water in the propane could from inside the regulator and creaqte a small ball of ice that would bounce around until it blocked the gas, shutting the whole thing down. He said you could pour warm water on the regulator to unfreeze it. I tried this but still fo ignition.

Any quick ideas as the sun goes down ??
 
Superdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 11:49 AM   #2
pineranch
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Navarre
Posts: 1,527
M.O.C. #9765
You could have the problem you described or you could have a problem with the regulator. Search the forum for propane issues and try the fixes described by the experts. Can you light your stove? If so the problem is not propane related.
Mike
pineranch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 11:52 AM   #3
nunya
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moab
Posts: 316
M.O.C. #6756
how bout tryin a light bulb? Never heard of this type of freezin before on a regulator, and I have been thru 4 winters with mine. Hope ya get it goin, its cold out there.
nunya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 11:55 AM   #4
H. John Kohl
Montana Master
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New Bern
Posts: 4,294
M.O.C. #311
Send a message via AIM to H. John Kohl Send a message via MSN to H. John Kohl Send a message via Yahoo to H. John Kohl
If the empty bottle is at the regulator switch then move the full bottle to that location. Actually swap bottle locations and flip the lever to the full bottle.
Good luck and let us know what you find.
H. John Kohl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 12:12 PM   #5
Superdave
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Burleson
Posts: 100
M.O.C. #6291
I just put a drop light into the tank well with the selector switch and it fired up . I'm going to leave the light on until July.

Like I said , everything is perfect, two full bottles, a replaced selector regulator switch with a much better indicator ( the kind with a glass bottle top), but when the demand came on it sucked the gas out and flipped the indicator to red immediately.
So there's either some ice in the line as the guy said, or some other debris that finally let go due to the Karmic suggestion I made about ripping the whole damn thing out and starting all over hehe . Anyway , knock on wood that the drop light will do the trick . We're at Lone Star Lake in northeast Texas and it's gettin down to 20 tonite.

I dearly love our Montana, but the propane system has been problematic since day one. Since my dealer went belly up , i guess I better find somebody to R and R the system.

thanks for all the help so fast - keep this one in your file drawers cuz you might get an ice bubble too ! Thanks to all !!!
Superdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 12:16 PM   #6
dpam
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 351
M.O.C. #10119
We had a similar problem with our propane. I think the key is maybe how you turn your tanks on. A few people on this forum also had propane flow problems and it was suggested that when you turn the tank on turn it on very slowly. I started doing this and we arn't having a propane problem anylonger. A dealer told me they have had a lot of people coiming in with propane problems and the actual problem was due to a junk regulator made in China. The dealer also said some of the problems were due to one of the small hoses failing.
__________________
DPAM
2017 GMC Denali diesel, crewcab, 4x4, regular box.
2010 Montana 3150RL- Moving to Montana Package , Hickory Edition Package, wet bolts
dpam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 12:33 PM   #7
exav8tr
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Casa Grande
Posts: 5,369
M.O.C. #6333
When living and flying the bush in Alaska, I put a 200 watt drop light next to my carb in my snow machine. I never had a problem with no gas flowing and it was much easier to start. Others would crank seemingly endlessly to get their machines started. Mine usually started with a little choke then one or two pulls. Love those drop lights.....

Glad you got your heat back. Here in Casa Grande, AZ, it is supposed to get to 20 degrees tonight. I had the belly open as the RV tech was waiting for a new flusher valve to install, I had him come out and button it up to keep the heat in, (if there is any)....

BTW: The suggestion of turning the tanks on VERY slowly is a good one. The newer tanks have a fast flow shut off inside. This shut off is in place in case a sudden rush of gas should escape, it shuts itself down. Opening slowly prevents the valve from opening. I crack the valve until I no longer hear the swishing of gas then open it up all the way. Anyway, that's what I have been told.....
exav8tr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 06:36 AM   #8
Superdave
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Burleson
Posts: 100
M.O.C. #6291
I'm well aware of the turn the valve slowly issue and do so. I was also shown that a lot of issues on RV propane systems come from not screwing the hose connection tightly against the tank valve. The connection pushes the interior valve to open and allow gas to flow. There is a very small distance here that has to be completed to open the valve. Sometimes if you can't seem to get gas flowing at all, you can take a paperclip or similar pointy object and push it against the valve on the tank to get it to open and hopefully blow out foreign objects that may have clogged the opening.

Again, i had everything "looking " correct. the indicator was green , etc. But once the demand for the gas furnace began, it sucked the " ice" into the opening inside the valve and shut down. I'm talking about one second here.
the drop light seems to have done the trick and I'll leave it on until this unbelievable weather breaks this weekend.

Happy trails !
Superdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 08:41 AM   #9
RCN.Stoker
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 143
M.O.C. #9497
Ask your propane dealer if they add a de-icer such as methyl alcohol to their propane. This is used as anti-freeze as it combines with the water in the tank and lowers it's freezing temperature. Same idea as gas line anti-freeze. We add a small amount as a standard procedure for our outdoor tanks for emergency generators. They also have two stage regulators. You can do the same but of course the tank should be empty, transported with the valve close until ready to fill and only a small amount added. Here is a Texas government link that gives you some idea on the quantity. Hope it helps.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source...1e8Wcw&cad=rja
RCN.Stoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 08:48 AM   #10
Superdave
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Burleson
Posts: 100
M.O.C. #6291
the propane dealer here in Jefferson texas mentioned that they do put the de-icer in their propane, but at issue is the fact that we get tanks filled here and there. he also said it was an expensive addition and the supplier didn't seem to like to do this - who knows? ?The main thing is I now know that ice can form and it can create a problem in these extreme cold temps ! i didn't plan to be out in this extreme weather, but as luck would have it , I did !
Superdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 02:31 PM   #11
Wiarton William
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wiarton
Posts: 421
M.O.C. #7790
Considering the number of years we have been using propane, how is it that the systems are screwing up now??
Wiarton William is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2011, 02:15 AM   #12
al-an
Established Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hartsel
Posts: 30
M.O.C. #9719
We had one of the junk regulaters for china in ours. We were having the same problem, so bought a good one and have not had any more problems. Good Luck
al-an is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2011, 06:19 AM   #13
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
Sounds like maybe you've solved your problem. There's another problem that crops up from time to time and bit us a couple of times, too.

I'm not sure about the new Montanas but our 2007 had the normal switchable regulator on one side and a small red regulator on the other side. I guess the RVIA or someone required that extra regulator in case the line ruptured, the one going all the way across the rig. To me that's overkill since the tanks now have built-in shutoffs for excess flow.

Anyhow, I had two of those red regulators malfunction and shut off the flow when there was no valid reason to do so. After the second one I went to an Ace Hardware and found the parts to replace the red regulator with an inline coupler. It took a couple of pieces since the "in" connector to the regulator is a different size than the "out" connector. I just took the red regulator with me to match pieces. We've had no problem with this setup in the several years it's been in place.

In really cold weather, like teens and below (we've been to single digits several times and minus 5 a couple of times) if the offside tank is low, like below half full, the reduced pressure in the cold weather causes the red flag on the regulator to show partially. Part red, part green. But the flow has been sufficient to run the furnace without a problem, even when the other tank was empty.
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2011, 08:49 AM   #14
jpkelpe
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Omaha
Posts: 2,073
M.O.C. #2780
Steve, thanks about the info about 1/2 red and 1/2 green. I was thinking that it meant we still had propane, well, you guessed it. ran out of propane and the other tank was also empty, just hadn't filled it yet. when it is half and half how do you know when the tank is really empty and needs switched over?
__________________
Paul and Jan Kelpe
2014 Big Sky 3150RL
2015 GMC Denali, Duramax/Allison
jpkelpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2011, 01:03 PM   #15
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
Jan, it should still have propane when it's half green and half red. The half red is showing because the pressure is low, usually because of cold temperatures, so it's possible the pressure won't be enough to operate the furnace. It should not be fully empty until it shows full red. If that happens again, try moving the tank to the main side where it doesn't have to flow so far and see if you can use the remaining propane.
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2011, 04:25 PM   #16
7.3Ford
Montana Master
 
7.3Ford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Indian Land
Posts: 1,142
M.O.C. #9808
The problem is the check values (safety features) in the lines. It is in the end of the hose, the part that screws on to the tank. A drill will fix it, but the safety feature will be gone, so I recommend both bottle be connected anytime the gas is on.

Also I don't turn both tanks on at the same time, since I want to know when a tank is empty. Yes it means I may have to get up in the middle of the night, but so far I have been lucky.
__________________
2015 Montana 3611RL - 2020 RAM 3500 SRW 4X4
John Walker, Indian Land, SC
Blog https://RoVIngWalkers.blogspot.com/
7.3Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2011, 12:15 PM   #17
Superdave
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Burleson
Posts: 100
M.O.C. #6291
So far so good here in Texas. I went 5 days on a 30 lb tank running day and night . Went to fill the empty tank today and discussed the issues with the local propane guy, he also confirmed the ice forming in the valve and said to e wrap a towel around the valve in cold weather to help insulate it. I have a drop light on it and alls been purrfect !
Superdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2011, 07:23 AM   #18
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
Another thing I've found is in subfreezing weather I can tell how much propane remains by looking at the frost line on the tank. This works when the propane is being drawn out and for a little while afterwards. I'm not sure if the frost is visible when no propane is being drawn. I don't think so.

I like the single tank at a time idea and think it would work well in many cases. But when it's cold enough that our lines could freeze if the furnace doesn't run I'm not sure I'd be comfortable using that approach. I'd probably not sleep well, worrying about it. Otherwise it would work just fine for me.

I like the trouble light idea, too, and I think next time we're in subfreezing weather for an extended period I will use that idea.
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2011, 02:52 PM   #19
kerry
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Frostproof
Posts: 512
M.O.C. #7125
Moisture in your LP tanks can cause these freeze ups. How does moisture get in the tanks? When the tanks are filled for the first time they need to be purged. Some new tanks are purged but most I've seen on new RV's are not. Most dealers don't purge the tanks before they fill them and therefor, some moisture is likely in the tank, not causing a problem in warm weather. This is an FYI post.
kerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2011, 10:35 AM   #20
frankandpam
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Livingston
Posts: 6
M.O.C. #11210
we had that problem and the propane hoses collapsed internally-had to be replaced.
frankandpam is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Red propane regulator embraceatrend Maintenance 9 10-23-2016 07:40 AM
Propane regulator richfaa Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 20 08-29-2012 04:10 PM
propane regulator Pugtracker General Discussions about our Montanas 12 05-17-2012 05:03 AM
Red Propane Regulator berridge Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 1 04-19-2012 10:40 AM
Propane Regulator MrLeavingAK General Discussions about our Montanas 11 06-27-2011 07:29 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.