2022 Silverado 2500HD / Montana 3911FB

[LilRedLX92]

All,

So excited for our first Montana purchase, but I might have gotten a little greedy......

Just purchased a new 2022 Silverado 2500HD, 4x4, Crew Cab, standard bed, 6.6 Duramax / Allison transmission. Most powerful truck I have ever had, but first time out of the gas burners. We have pulled 5th wheels before, with a 1500HD/6.0 gas, but only a 26 ft.

So....we start the hunt for a 5th wheel. We have looked at SO many models and done a lot of research, but found a 2016 Montana 3911FB that we absolutely LOVE! It fits exactly what we want and we have negotiated a great deal on it from an individual. This being said, I started looking at weights.....

GVWR of camper is 16,000 lbs.
GVWR of my truck is SO damn confusing, it is unreal. Dealer told me 18,500 for a 5th wheel, but I am not sure with what I can find. I have attached pics for reference, would like some opinions from y'all first. Truck sticker says 18,500 for a gooseneck, GCWR of 27,500 lbs. Truck GVWR is 11,350 / Camper GVWR is 16,000. This seems I am right at the limit....unloaded.

Please, before any flaming might begin, I am asking so that I can learn and NOT be one of those out on the side of the road AFTER something bad happens. We haven't exchanged any money for the camper yet, so I could back out, I just don't want to.....LOL

Thanks in advance for your help! Rick

[DutchmenSport]

16,000 pounds, you are looking at diesel dually country.

But: Looking at a couple web sites:

WeightDry Weight 12,730 lbs.
Payload Capacity 3,270 lbs.
GVWR 16,000 lbs.
Hitch Weight 3,270 lbs.

Based on these, your truck will be at the edge. Add water, propane, camping equipment, and people, and you'll easily add another 2000 pounds to that dry weight.

It's a close call?

Another edit:

I just noticed the sticker on your truck says

The combined weight of occupants and cargo must never exceed .... 3084 pounds.

That leaves you only 186 pounds. Add people to the truck, your cargo in the trailer, water, propane, fuel, and everything else, and you have exceeded the limits of your truck.

For this trailer, you do not have enough truck ... even if the trailer is completely empty and dry. I'm assuming you weigh more than 186 pounds though?

[Foldbak]

Nice rig! She's a bigun! I'll let the weight police chime in. But I will say you need a bit more truck...

[Mikendebbie]

LilRed - we towed our 3921FB with a 2014 Chevy 3500 (long bed) SRW, and it got the job done. We love the 3921FB! Ours has the full bath tub across the front. I never made it to a cat scale with the 2014 Chevy attached unfortunately. We went up thru the hills of Arkansas and the exhaust brake was wonderul. However...the 2014 developed some DEF issues when it was out of warranty and we made the decision to move up to a dually (see sig below). The experience is so much more enjoyable ad stable. Here is cat scale weight ticket for my truck and 3921FB together...including DW + three 50 lbs dogs...no water in any of the waste tanks, gray tanks or fresh water tank. Also a ticket showing my truck alone. We have since installed Splendide washer/dryer combo but I have not weighed the rig since.

[LilRedLX92]

Originally Posted by Mikendebbie

LilRed - we towed our 3921FB with a 2014 Chevy 3500 (long bed) SRW, and it got the job done. We love the 3921FB! Ours has the full bath tub across the front. I never made it to a cat scale with the 2014 Chevy attached unfortunately. We went up thru the hills of Arkansas and the exhaust brake was wonderul. However...the 2014 developed some DEF issues when it was out of warranty and we made the decision to move up to a dually (see sig below). The experience is so much more enjoyable ad stable. Here is cat scale weight ticket for my truck and 3921FB together...including DW + three 50 lbs dogs...no water in any of the waste tanks, gray tanks or fresh water tank. Also a ticket showing my truck alone. We have since installed Splendide washer/dryer combo but I have not weighed the rig since.

Thank you for that!!! I can honestly tell you, the layout of the 3911, the 2nd bathroom and the HUGE front master bath are major selling points for us! I think it will be at the upper end of my CVWR, but doable. After a few trips, if we decide this is something we are doing a LOT, or even fulltime, a dually will be in my future! Nice set up you have!

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by LilRedLX92

Thank you for that!!! I can honestly tell you, the layout of the 3911, the 2nd bathroom and the HUGE front master bath are major selling points for us! I think it will be at the upper end of my CVWR, but doable. After a few trips, if we decide this is something we are doing a LOT, or even fulltime, a dually will be in my future! Nice set up you have!

First, welcome to the forum!

Next, I think you've gotten some great advice to build on here. I like when folks share their scale numbers so we can all see what real world results look like.

Here is an interesting thing I wanted to make sure you noticed... in the scale tickets posted by MikeandDebbie, if your trailer weighs similar to theirs, you will be about 900lbs overweight (the difference between their truck scale weight and your trucks GVWR). However, their truck weighs about 900lbs more than yours does, so you actually may be within your weight limits.
EDIT: I read the ticket wrong... you would be about 1500lbs overweight towing their rig, but would gain almost 900lbs back due to lighter weight truck. In this case, still overweight, but depending on the trailer model and how you load it, the weights will vary and you could be close.

I share this because, to me, it is really interesting to compare a 2500 class truck with a dually and find that the 2500 truck may work for the weights. There are those who will say (and did say on this thread) that you need a dually. And, there are some advantages to a dually. But there are also disadvantages...


DISADVANTAGES of a dually:
-stopping distance. Even though many would praise the extra rubber for stopping, it actually can have the opposite affect. Less tire contact of the extra rubber of a dually means less ground pressure. This means that a dually has slight less grip compared to single wheels. (ask anyone who lives in snow country about how well an empty dually works in snow). Duallies are especially worse during sudden stops when empty, as the rear wheels will not have very much grip due to the low weight and high amount of contact patch.

-related to above - hydroplaning. A little discussed danger of DRW trucks is that they are more susceptible to hydroplaning. This is due to the rear wheels not tracking in the same path as the front wheels, as well as the lower ground pressure.

-BTW, if stopping distance is important to you; get disc brakes on your camper. Night and day difference. A SRW truck with a trailer that has disc brakes will stop far shorter than a dually with a trailer and drum brakes.

-driving everywhere else when not towing. A dually is a complete non-starter for my wife. I've had several work duallies in the past so my wife knows them. She will not drive a dually, period, and we stay in our Montana for about 5 months of the year where our truck is our only vehicle.

-costs. You will have 50% more tire drag and likely ~50% more cost to replace tires.

ADVANTAGES of a dually:
-if you are overloaded on a SRW truck, especially the rear tires or rear axle, then you need the dually.

-sway; the extra rubber and extra width will reduce the sway, especially in high cross winds. However, our new Montana tracks so well that it has not been an issue at all with our 3500 SRW truck. (I had an older 5th wheel on an older RAM dually (90s models of both); the sway of that combo in the mountains was scary at times and my new single wheel rig is far more stable). Would a new RAM 3500 dually be more stable, at times? For sure, but this is the most stable RV rig I've had so the difference is not enough... for me.

My summary? When you really need a dually to carry the load, then you need one. But there are also disadvantages to dually trucks, so if the numbers work with a single wheel truck, they can be very viable options.

So, if you do decide to purchase the Montana, it would be good to check the weights and see where you end up. In your case, you have a very high GVWR for a 2500 class truck and you may actually be able to make it work.

Brad

[LilRedLX92]

Originally Posted by kowbra

First, welcome to the forum!

Next, I think you've gotten some great advice to build on here. I like when folks share their scale numbers so we can all see what real world results look like.

Here is an interesting thing I wanted to make sure you noticed... in the scale tickets posted by MikeandDebbie, if your trailer weighs similar to theirs, you will be about 900lbs overweight (the difference between their truck scale weight and your trucks GVWR). However, their truck weighs about 900lbs more than yours does, so you actually may be within your weight limits.
EDIT: I read the ticket wrong... you would be about 1500lbs overweight towing their rig, but would gain almost 900lbs back due to lighter weight truck. In this case, still overweight, but depending on the trailer model and how you load it, the weights will vary and you could be close.

I share this because, to me, it is really interesting to compare a 2500 class truck with a dually and find that the 2500 truck may work for the weights. There are those who will say (and did say on this thread) that you need a dually. And, there are some advantages to a dually. But there are also disadvantages...


DISADVANTAGES of a dually:
-stopping distance. Even though many would praise the extra rubber for stopping, it actually can have the opposite affect. Less tire contact of the extra rubber of a dually means less ground pressure. This means that a dually has slight less grip compared to single wheels. (ask anyone who lives in snow country about how well an empty dually works in snow). Duallies are especially worse during sudden stops when empty, as the rear wheels will not have very much grip due to the low weight and high amount of contact patch.

-related to above - hydroplaning. A little discussed danger of DRW trucks is that they are more susceptible to hydroplaning. This is due to the rear wheels not tracking in the same path as the front wheels, as well as the lower ground pressure.

-BTW, if stopping distance is important to you; get disc brakes on your camper. Night and day difference. A SRW truck with a trailer that has disc brakes will stop far shorter than a dually with a trailer and drum brakes.

-driving everywhere else when not towing. A dually is a complete non-starter for my wife. I've had several work duallies in the past so my wife knows them. She will not drive a dually, period, and we stay in our Montana for about 5 months of the year where our truck is our only vehicle.

-costs. You will have 50% more tire drag and likely ~50% more cost to replace tires.

ADVANTAGES of a dually:
-if you are overloaded on a SRW truck, especially the rear tires or rear axle, then you need the dually.

-sway; the extra rubber and extra width will reduce the sway, especially in high cross winds. However, our new Montana tracks so well that it has not been an issue at all with our 3500 SRW truck. (I had an older 5th wheel on an older RAM dually (90s models of both); the sway of that combo in the mountains was scary at times and my new single wheel rig is far more stable). Would a new RAM 3500 dually be more stable, at times? For sure, but this is the most stable RV rig I've had so the difference is not enough... for me.

My summary? When you really need a dually to carry the load, then you need one. But there are also disadvantages to dually trucks, so if the numbers work with a single wheel truck, they can be very viable options.

So, if you do decide to purchase the Montana, it would be good to check the weights and see where you end up. In your case, you have a very high GVWR for a 2500 class truck and you may actually be able to make it work.

Brad

Thank you so much for the well thought out response, I really appreciate it!

My wife and I are so in love with this camper and SO close on weight ratings, I feel like we are going to make it work.

Rick

[LilRedLX92]

And I keep going back to that sticker in the door jamb, rated at 18,500 for gooseneck ��

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by LilRedLX92

And I keep going back to that sticker in the door jamb, rated at 18,500 for gooseneck ��

Yes, ratings can get confusing!

18,500lbs for towing is saying that the truck has the power to accelerate the load in less than the rated time. It also says the truck can stop the load in less than the maximum rated distance. So, it gains the rating.

What it doesn't account for is the amount of "tongue weight" that will be on the truck and whether the truck has the payload to handle that.

For bumper trailers, the rating assumes 10% of the trailer GVWR (loaded up to max). So, if this were a bumper hitch model, it would presume putting 1,850lbs on the truck bumper hitch. No problem for your truck so far.

For goosenecks and 5th wheels, I "think" they are both rated for 15% of the load. In this case that would be 2,775lbs on the goose ball over the axles of the truck. A "standard" person is calculated to be 170lbs, so if you weigh similar, you could drive the truck with that trailer loaded to max. (you'd have to add almost 50lbs to "standard" for me to drive your truck .
That leaves you about 139lbs for fuel, which is about 21 gallons of diesel.
See, you can pull that 18,500lb gooseneck trailer just fine!!!

Of course, loading the trailer so that more than 15% of the trailer weight on the hitch in the truck, or adding more fuel, or adding more people, or adding anything else to the truck? You'd be overweight then.

But again, your truck has gone through a ratings review before GM decided what to put on the label. Of course, HD manufacturers know that bragging rights sell trucks, but they have to balance that with potential warranty claims, or even liability claims if they set the bar too high and things break.

[Ram Montana High Country]

for what it's worth - I had a 2017 2500 RAM diesel and a 2017 305RL - during weight out at the rally, the truck was 1700 over with the rear axle was 700 over - fortunately Chevy has jacked up GVWR - take it to a CAT Scale, get the real numbers and move as much weight to rear.

[mhs4771]

Your problem is in the cargo capacity which is just a little over 3000, you've got different pics with slightly different numbers but all just over 3000. that unit will have a pin weight somewhere between 2700 to 3300 depending on how much you load it up.
So yes you are very marginal on pin weight, no problem with power and pulling.

[Ram Montana High Country]

I think someone mentioned it but, Take truck GVWR subtract weight of: Fuel, people , pets, hitch, bed cover, accessories put in truck, miscellaneous items set in bed. the remainder is the pin weight. I was shocked at what was left.

[Eagleback]

2500 or 3/4 ton trucks are usually too small for most of the Montana's out there. and its the payload on the truck that puts it over the edge. Remember you will be able to pull it. BUT to stop and control it is a whole new thing.

[Mikendebbie]

LilRed - I thought I would post the "brochure weights" for the unit you are looking at, and my 3921FB for comparison.
Also below is sketch I made about a year ago when I was concerned about weight and how it can be loaded and distributed thru my unit. For any "rear living" Montana - with the slides in, there is really no place to put stuff in the back area - the bulk of the storage is in front of the axle thru to the front end. Your unit has a closet across the front (mine has a bathtub) where you will load lots of weight. If you decide to pull the trigger on that unit - maybe this will help as you think about loading it up. There is a fresh water tank behind the axles but I don’t travel with very much water in it. One of these days I might improve the tank supports and I might put more water in for travel.

[LilRedLX92]

Originally Posted by Mikendebbie

LilRed - I thought I would post the "brochure weights" for the unit you are looking at, and my 3921FB for comparison.
Also below is sketch I made about a year ago when I was concerned about weight and how it can be loaded and distributed thru my unit. For any "rear living" Montana - with the slides in, there is really no place to put stuff in the back area - the bulk of the storage is in front of the axle thru to the front end. Your unit has a closet across the front (mine has a bathtub) where you will load lots of weight. If you decide to pull the trigger on that unit - maybe this will help as you think about loading it up. There is a fresh water tank behind the axles but I don’t travel with very much water in it. One of these days I might improve the tank supports and I might put more water in for travel.

Thank you , this is awesome!!!

[jeririgged223]

Biggest mistake most seem to make is the are told they can tow 16, 18 or 20,000 lbs but they get a 5th wheel and they max out their cargo weight. I had a F250 diesel, crew cab 4WD, SRW and when I got my 5th wheel found that fully loaded I had about 200 lbs of cargo weight rating to spare. Pulled great, handled well but just made me nervous. I had visions of hitting that one bump and driving the kingpin right through the rear axle. So I upgraded to a F350 and now I have almost 800 lbs to spare and a long bed with the max cargo and weight ratings. Same motor, same truck, same gear ratio, more gears and I'm getting 2 to 3 mpg more on the road.

[beeje]

I did not read every word of every post before this I'm sure there was some weight police in there. Sorry but I have to be the weight police also.
With only three thousand pounds of cargo carrying capacity you will be way overloaded with that truck.
Along with the pin weight of the camper you also have to include anything you've added to the truck including the hitch any tools /anything in the bed of the truck like firewood yourself/ your wife/ your dog/ your kids/ fuel excetera.
In my opinion you are definitely in Dooly diesel territory.
Will your truck tow it /absolutely, the question is how much safety are you willing to ignore?

[sberlin]

Hi Rick-many appropriate responses and Brad has good detail. We have a 2018 3701LK rated at 16,200lbs and started with a Chevy 2500HD(got truck before rig). For all intents and purposes, the most important weight is the rear axle when you’re towing. We ended up around 300lbs over on the rear axle. It towed and stopped fine as we came from VA to home in CA so up & over mountains, etc. Being overweight just left us a little uneasy knowing we’ll be doing this for many years. Traded in the 2500HD for a GMC 3500HD SRW and we are now within limits. The other factor is how much will you load ur rig and where do you put it. We are usually around 14,000 when traveling and added a carrier on the rear end which takes about 100lbs off the hitch weight. The truck is my daily driver and I didn’t want a dually. At this point the unknown is what exactly is your rear axle weight. Don’t know your situation but you already have the truck so take the leap and figure it out with real numbers. Maybe you can find a place that will let you take a test drive on a similar model to the scales. Happy Hunting!

[bcrvman]

Originally Posted by LilRedLX92

All,

So excited for our first Montana purchase, but I might have gotten a little greedy......

Just purchased a new 2022 Silverado 2500HD, 4x4, Crew Cab, standard bed, 6.6 Duramax / Allison transmission. Most powerful truck I have ever had, but first time out of the gas burners. We have pulled 5th wheels before, with a 1500HD/6.0 gas, but only a 26 ft.

So....we start the hunt for a 5th wheel. We have looked at SO many models and done a lot of research, but found a 2016 Montana 3911FB that we absolutely LOVE! It fits exactly what we want and we have negotiated a great deal on it from an individual. This being said, I started looking at weights.....

GVWR of camper is 16,000 lbs.
GVWR of my truck is SO damn confusing, it is unreal. Dealer told me 18,500 for a 5th wheel, but I am not sure with what I can find. I have attached pics for reference, would like some opinions from y'all first. Truck sticker says 18,500 for a gooseneck, GCWR of 27,500 lbs. Truck GVWR is 11,350 / Camper GVWR is 16,000. This seems I am right at the limit....unloaded.

Please, before any flaming might begin, I am asking so that I can learn and NOT be one of those out on the side of the road AFTER something bad happens. We haven't exchanged any money for the camper yet, so I could back out, I just don't want to.....LOL

Thanks in advance for your help! Rick

All the information is right there and to summarize, truck too small or trailer too big.
Your RV is 16,000 lbs. At a pin weight ratio of 22% you need to support 3,520 lbs on the hitch. Your truck can only carry 3,084 lbs as it says in at least 2 places I see on your pictures. I am an 80 yr old man and my wife 67, but our payload before hitching up is about 800 to 900 lbs. You are over before you install the hitch, get gas, get a driver let alone at least another few hundred pounds for people and tools.

[Mikelff]

Originally Posted by LilRedLX92

Thank you for that!!! I can honestly tell you, the layout of the 3911, the 2nd bathroom and the HUGE front master bath are major selling points for us! I think it will be at the upper end of my CVWR, but doable. After a few trips, if we decide this is something we are doing a LOT, or even fulltime, a dually will be in my future! Nice set up you have!

LilRed, you will definitely be overweight with your current truck. You can go with a 3500 4 wheeler and most likely be well within your weight requirements. I run with a 4 wheeler and no issues with a 41’ bunk house, so kind of a personal preference. If you go with a large toy hauler or other very large 5er with lots of weight than I would say yes, you need a dually. Wheel size and type of OEM tires increase load capacity ratings from factory, so look at these when looking for a new truck. Up to you. Happy camping.