Disk brakes and tires at home - Montana Owners Club

Reeves · 07-12-2021, 02:34 PM

Afternoon folks,

Have a disk brake kit from Performance Trailer Braking sitting in the garage and a new set of Sailun s637's on the way. Gathering necessary items to do the install and need a bit of advice. Planning to remove tires and have them mounted/balanced (hub centered balance) at local shop, and do brake install at same time. I am still working out the best way to lift and stabilize the rig during the job.

It's a 2019 385BR with ELECTRIC 6 point leveling system (Ground control 3.0).
Had the unit at the house on an un-level site with 2 wheels off the ground for 3 weeks and the system did not seem to struggle at all to achieve level. Now on a much more level site.

We live in the lower FL Keys, and cannot get an installer here before after the new year, and do not have a local shop who can do the install. In the habit of doing for myself.

Have to figure out a solution for roadside flats anyway, and looking at several options.

1: Use the electric 6-point system to lift whole rig, with jack stands under frame after lifting for redundancy. Haven't tried it, can't find evidence of anyone who has (wouldn't bat an eye if it was hydraulic).

2: Use (2) 12-ton or 20-ton (wider) bottle jacks to lift frame on one side, with jack stands under frame. Possibly run leveling jacks down on same side for redundancy. This seems like it would necessitate blocks UNDER the jacks for the reach needed.

3: Use Trailer-Aid ramp to lift one tire at a time. Rig connected to truck. All other tires chocked. Unsure if the trailer-aid gives enough lift; rig has stock suspension with a blue "road armour' equalizer if that helps.

That's where I am, and reaching out to those who may have dealt with this already. I know from my research that many who have the hydraulic system would and can lift their rig and many who would not. I have the electric system and do not have much experience with it, however what I have seen says consider the possibility. Is there another option I am not considering outside of renting a crane?

Creeker · 07-12-2021, 04:12 PM

I use two trailer aid ramps and do one complete axle at a time.
Pull front tires up on ramps and remove both rear wheels at same time.
(If not tall enough, place a board under ramp.)

Repeat for other axle after installing new tires or adjusting brakes.
Leave it attached to truck. No worries of falling off jacks or moving.
I will not use our electric 3.0 system to lift wheels off ground.

Tire shop is only 15 minutes from home so no big deal to make two trips for me.

Golfmedik · 07-12-2021, 05:41 PM

I've done this in my driveway and at the Rally in Goshen with hydraulic rigs. As far as electric ones, I would do one side at a time lifting them with bottle jacks and 6x6 cribbing as you don't want to stress the electric jacks if you don't have to. I would not use them to subject the pins and gears to that stress, but that's just me. I used 12ton jack stands under both of the ones I've done as a safety factor.
You will love the disc brakes! You will ask yourself why you hadn't done it sooner. Utilize the videos and specs on PTB's website. It's a great resource.

Reeves · 07-12-2021, 06:40 PM

Thanks guys, very helpful to have this resource available. Looking forward to disks and good tires! Creeker, this sure would be an easy solution, any concern about the load on one axle? I know the full weight is distributed between that axle on the ramps and the truck, just trying to think about the ratio. Axles are rated at 7k, and once the rig is up on both, it should transfer more weight to the pin.

phillyg · 07-13-2021, 07:38 AM

I have used the 6-pt levelers to raise one side at a time to do bearing service, with a couple of jackstands under the frame for safety. Then, take two wheels/tires into the shop for mounting while you change out the brakes on that side.

Creeker · 07-13-2021, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reeves

Thanks guys, very helpful to have this resource available. Looking forward to disks and good tires! Creeker, this sure would be an easy solution, any concern about the load on one axle? I know the full weight is distributed between that axle on the ramps and the truck, just trying to think about the ratio. Axles are rated at 7k, and once the rig is up on both, it should transfer more weight to the pin.

I have no concerns as you are sitting still and not bouncing down the highway. I just did this very thing back in Feb with our Montana when installing new tires. I've done the same on previous 5ers for at least a decade now. No problems with any of them.

GAinaMontana · 07-13-2021, 10:52 AM

I feel more comfortable raising the entire trailer level than leaning it to the side while raising just one side a time. Did this same upgrade a few years ago. Raised trailer with hydraulic jacks, pulled wheels and installed disc brakes and new seals and bearings. Remounted tires and blocked up axles then installed brake lines. No issues except had to ground actuator directly thru truck wiring harness. Good luck in that south Florida heat.

Reeves · 07-13-2021, 01:08 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions! Leaning toward a sort of hybrid of these, mainly because I know the job will take longer than I think it will. Everything moves slower in the heat and boy is it summer down here.

My thought is, use the double trailer-aid idea and evenly lift one whole axle at a time, truck attached and manually drop the rear legs just enough to take a little weight and make the whole thing more stable. Put a set of jack stands under the rear of the frame and bring the rear down enough, until the stands are solid and stable, and sharing load with rear jacks, trailer aid ramps, and truck. Swap tires/brakes, and then repeat for other axle. Thoughts?

For those that have done the brake install, is it a pain to run the lines with the wheels/tires on, or something that can normally be worked around?

Thanks again, trying to think the whole thing through in the a/c before I have to start troubleshooting in the heat.

PTB does have some great helpful videos but I am realistic that they make it look really easy because that is what they do all the time and have a shop full of tools meant for the job.

L0veless · 07-13-2021, 04:21 PM

being an old fat boy I did this couple years ago, Took my time, one day to run the brake lines (3 trips to the auto store),one day installing hydraulic unit and running electrical lines, beer break, one day one each side, beer break, take your time. easy 2 day job, one day for professional that I stretched out to 4. you will never look back and love them.

h2ojocky · 07-14-2021, 12:06 AM

I did this last year. I used a bottle jack and lifted each axle and set on 4 jack stands. Landing gear was down. I chose to take all wheels off at once because with greasing bearings I thought it would be easier not having to keep changing gloves with grease on them.

GLS3950 · 07-18-2021, 01:17 PM

You want lug centered for balancing

Randu · 07-18-2021, 01:43 PM

I would not lift wheels off ground with the 3.0 electric system. Will work but puts undue strain on the jack screw and nut threads. Was on Jayco forum with past trailer and many were replacing electric jack due to the threads wearing out.

Reeves · 07-18-2021, 03:48 PM

Yep, have definitely decided not to lift all with the electric jacks; that seems clear. On the subject of balancing, I am reading lots of conflicting information about which method is "right, correct or acceptable".

After calling multiple shops, it is obvious that very few, if any, have and use the lug centric adapter for balancing machines. I honestly can't find one in my area, but I am 3 hours away from a real industrial center. The argument makes complete sense to me, that lug centric was needed with steel wheels and that machined aluminum wheels are much truer to center.

Has anyone had aluminum wheels balanced hub centric and it been an issue?

The ideal scenario is escaping me at the moment...

pitman44 · 07-18-2021, 05:07 PM

We installed wet bolts and cleaned/packed the wheel bearings last year. Not the same job, I know, but we lifted our 2013 343RL completely off the ground. I did it by lowering the landing gear completely and putting 8" cement blocks on edge under the frame fairly close to the back of the rear tires. Then raised the landing gear all the way up and put the blocks under the frame just in front of the front tires. Did that a couple times and put a 2x on top of the last blocks. I used a floor jack under the frame as needed to move the axle. We were'nt going to do this in an afternoon, so I wanted something very stable. Worked well for us.

Richard Blackwell · 07-18-2021, 05:30 PM

WARNING! When you install those brakes...BE CERTAIN NONE OF THE RUBBER HOSE ASSEMBLIES ARE RUBBING AGAINST ANY PORTION OF THE FRAME! I installed the same system (which works great...unless) but the end of line hose connecting to the back axle had been rubbing against the flat flange of the trailer and eventually rubbed a hole through the hose...which I discovered trying to make a stop at a signal while in South Dakota...avoided what could have been a major pile up but trying to stop 15300lb trailer with only truck brakes turns into a major "E" ticket ride.

**Carl n Susan** · 07-18-2021, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reeves

..... On the subject of balancing, I am reading lots of conflicting information about which method is "right, correct or acceptable".

After calling multiple shops, it is obvious that very few, if any, have and use the lug centric adapter for balancing machines. I honestly can't find one in my area, but I am 3 hours away from a real industrial center. The argument makes complete sense to me, that lug centric was needed with steel wheels and that machined aluminum wheels are much truer to center.

First I believe, no I know, you have it backwards. Steel wheels are balanced using a "hub centric" adapter. This is the standard for all tire places. 99% of their tire business is automotive wheels which are machined to much tighter tolerances than RV wheels.

The aluminum RV wheels need to be "Lug centic" balanced as the center hole is not perfectly centered. Look at the chrome beauty ring that covers the quick lube fittings. Is that a precision fit piece?

Quote:

Has anyone had aluminum wheels balanced hub centric and it been an issue?

The ideal scenario is escaping me at the moment...

Several members here have had their wheels balanced with "Hub centric" machines. You can tell as they take a ton of weight. When I saw the huge number of weights on my wheel that had been just balanced, I went back and demanded they redo it with me watching (they wouldn't let me in the shop the first time) and using a Lug centric adapter. Surprise, surprise, it only took 1 oz. of weight. This was an Americas' Tire aka Discount Tire store and they did have the adapter. The rookie kid didn't read the note on the work order and did it just like he always does.

Here is a previous discussion on this topic.

https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...ad.php?t=73998

Do a Search on "lug centric" for more discussion.

Reeves · 07-18-2021, 07:13 PM

Thank you, yes I did have it backwards. Reading through several of the discussions and now I think I've got it.

jdwinks · 07-18-2021, 08:18 PM

Hi--
i just did this switch out of drums for discs. As far as the actual disc installation i did one wheel at a time so i jacked up one at a time. I then used a creeper to work underneath the camper. I removed as much under belly as necessary and installed 1x 3 wood to create a frame to hook hydraulic lines to. It took a while but i did not feel comfortable just letting lines lay free underneath. At each wheel i cut a hole for the line to exit and reach the disc. You will be very pleased with the stopping power of the discs. As far as the trailer aids---you can make the same thing out of 1x6x8 lumber for $10 and get a 6" lift.

**Carl n Susan** · 07-18-2021, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reeves

Thank you, yes I did have it backwards. Reading through several of the discussions and now I think I've got it.

If worse comes to worse and you can't find someone with a Lug Centri adapter, don't balance them at all. You likely will be closer than a Hub centric can get you.

psomers · 07-19-2021, 05:51 AM

Or you can do what OTR trucks and most of your diesel pushers do. They use balance beads inserted through the valve stem. You will also have to replace the valve core with one that is filtered. Look at your big trucks and see how many don't have any weights. The wheels rebalance every start up.
PS There is also a balance fluid.

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